Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think this is the point where I reiterate that a Toronto deal will be on the table one day. I don't think we need to rush this, particularly when the whole NBA world seems to really dislike the kid. We're not winning a championship this year or signing Durant in the off-season, let's not sell at the lowest point (most time remaining on a large contract, slump in play). It's just stupid business sense to move on a deal now.

Is the Toronto window closing though? They're killing it right now...

Might depend on Kawhi Leonard. But that team seems built on unsung guys who come out of seemingly nowhere to be contributors... not much ballyhooed top draft picks being ridiculously overpaid.

Toronto's continued success vs rebuild completely hinges on Kawhi. Lowry isn't getting any younger. I'd be shocked if Toronto re-signs Kawhi. I can't see Ujiri staying if they lose Kawhi. That being said the right time to trade Wiggins will be about a year from now or beyond, which I believe will coincide with a full Toronto rebuild.

Why would they need to completely rebuild?

They will have a ton of space/decisions next year. They'd have Lowry's $33M contract to work with... maybe Valuncunas' $17M... and Ibaka's $23M... all expiring.

Unless he improves significantly, I simply can't see a team picking up Wiggins in Year 7 with that kind of money on the books. It's not like Toronto's fans are that big of provincial rubes that they'd take anything close to local talent to make them happy. They'd be fresh from multiple 55-win seasons... ECF appearances... et al.

Saying "But he's from here!" flies with crappy organizations like Minnesota... not successful ones.



[Note: I have no idea if Leonard resigns there or not. He's just... a different kind of cat. Does his signing with NEW BALANCE instead of NIKE make it seem more or less likely?]

Toronto has been through multiple rebuilds, and yes MLSE are the biggest provincial rubes there are. You don't need to look farther the same ownership's handling of the Maple Leafs and the constant calls in the National sports media to sign more Ontario talent. If Ujiri leaves they are going to be lost at sea, and their expiring salaries are not going to land them another game changing piece. To weather a rebuild signing Wiggins would go over extremely well with the significant nationalist factions of their fanbase. Provincialism and nationalism are huge issues throughout Canada, especially in Toronto.

At this point Wiggins is just hurting the team. Sure he shows flashes but he just isn't helping in the big picture right now. I'd like to win some games and I think he would be addition by subtraction for us.

If we can offload his ridiculous contract and pick up a solid role player along the way I'm all for that.

As far as giving up a first round pick to do it goes.... Let's be real here, It's not like we have a great track record when drafting players anyways so I would gladly give up a pick to get rid of him because it's not "just about cap space"

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:At this point Wiggins is just hurting the team. Sure he shows flashes but he just isn't helping in the big picture right now. I'd like to win some games and I think he would be addition by subtraction for us.

If we can offload his ridiculous contract and pick up a solid role player along the way I'm all for that.

As far as giving up a first round pick to do it goes.... Let's be real here, It's not like we have a great track record when drafting players anyways so I would gladly give up a pick to get rid of him because it's not "just about cap space"

Trade Wiggins for nothing fine but I don't care how bad this franchise has been at drafting we shouldn't PAY to get rid of Wiggins. Someone Will want him for basically nothing.

FWIW Wolfson said for fun he asked someone with ties to the Wizards if they would do a deal Wiggins for Porter and they said no.

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think this is the point where I reiterate that a Toronto deal will be on the table one day. I don't think we need to rush this, particularly when the whole NBA world seems to really dislike the kid. We're not winning a championship this year or signing Durant in the off-season, let's not sell at the lowest point (most time remaining on a large contract, slump in play). It's just stupid business sense to move on a deal now.

Is the Toronto window closing though? They're killing it right now...

Might depend on Kawhi Leonard. But that team seems built on unsung guys who come out of seemingly nowhere to be contributors... not much ballyhooed top draft picks being ridiculously overpaid.

Toronto's continued success vs rebuild completely hinges on Kawhi. Lowry isn't getting any younger. I'd be shocked if Toronto re-signs Kawhi. I can't see Ujiri staying if they lose Kawhi. That being said the right time to trade Wiggins will be about a year from now or beyond, which I believe will coincide with a full Toronto rebuild.

Why would they need to completely rebuild?

They will have a ton of space/decisions next year. They'd have Lowry's $33M contract to work with... maybe Valuncunas' $17M... and Ibaka's $23M... all expiring.

Unless he improves significantly, I simply can't see a team picking up Wiggins in Year 7 with that kind of money on the books. It's not like Toronto's fans are that big of provincial rubes that they'd take anything close to local talent to make them happy. They'd be fresh from multiple 55-win seasons... ECF appearances... et al.

Saying "But he's from here!" flies with crappy organizations like Minnesota... not successful ones.



[Note: I have no idea if Leonard resigns there or not. He's just... a different kind of cat. Does his signing with NEW BALANCE instead of NIKE make it seem more or less likely?]

Toronto has been through multiple rebuilds, and yes MLSE are the biggest provincial rubes there are. You don't need to look farther the same ownership's handling of the Maple Leafs and the constant calls in the National sports media to sign more Ontario talent. If Ujiri leaves they are going to be lost at sea, and their expiring salaries are not going to land them another game changing piece. To weather a rebuild signing Wiggins would go over extremely well with the significant nationalist factions of their fanbase. Provincialism and nationalism are huge issues throughout Canada, especially in Toronto.

If Ujiri leaves Toronto fire everyone and give him 100 million to do whatever the hell he wants. It seems like what I've been hearing Kwahi might actually stay there. If he leaves sure maybe Wiggins can land there. The reality is this offseason IF the Wolves decide to move on there will he teams that didn't sign anyone that have space that might want a guy like that. Heck what if Leonard stays in Toronto and the Clipper strike out. Yeah I doubt it but what if Thibs gets fired and he gives some glowing recommendation of Wiggins to his good friend Doc Rivers. No this is not likely to happen but unexpected deals happen all the time.

To me why deal Wiggins now unless you get some value back? Like you said his value is bad now basically the only way it gets worse if he gets injured or demands out or has some off the court issue. I guess any of that is possible but why not see what we have in this latest roster turnover for a few more games? It's strange to me that Wiggins gets basically no credit for this defensive uptick lately. Meanwhile there is simply no way Wiggins shots under 40% the rest of the season. I mean the guy is shooting 17% on super long 2's. Yep it's a terrible shot but that's ridonkulously bad. He is gonna turn around to some extent and regress back to the mean somewhat.

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think this is the point where I reiterate that a Toronto deal will be on the table one day. I don't think we need to rush this, particularly when the whole NBA world seems to really dislike the kid. We're not winning a championship this year or signing Durant in the off-season, let's not sell at the lowest point (most time remaining on a large contract, slump in play). It's just stupid business sense to move on a deal now.

Is the Toronto window closing though? They're killing it right now...

Might depend on Kawhi Leonard. But that team seems built on unsung guys who come out of seemingly nowhere to be contributors... not much ballyhooed top draft picks being ridiculously overpaid.

Toronto's continued success vs rebuild completely hinges on Kawhi. Lowry isn't getting any younger. I'd be shocked if Toronto re-signs Kawhi. I can't see Ujiri staying if they lose Kawhi. That being said the right time to trade Wiggins will be about a year from now or beyond, which I believe will coincide with a full Toronto rebuild.

Why would they need to completely rebuild?

They will have a ton of space/decisions next year. They'd have Lowry's $33M contract to work with... maybe Valuncunas' $17M... and Ibaka's $23M... all expiring.

Unless he improves significantly, I simply can't see a team picking up Wiggins in Year 7 with that kind of money on the books. It's not like Toronto's fans are that big of provincial rubes that they'd take anything close to local talent to make them happy. They'd be fresh from multiple 55-win seasons... ECF appearances... et al.

Saying "But he's from here!" flies with crappy organizations like Minnesota... not successful ones.



[Note: I have no idea if Leonard resigns there or not. He's just... a different kind of cat. Does his signing with NEW BALANCE instead of NIKE make it seem more or less likely?]

Toronto has been through multiple rebuilds, and yes MLSE are the biggest provincial rubes there are. You don't need to look farther the same ownership's handling of the Maple Leafs and the constant calls in the National sports media to sign more Ontario talent. If Ujiri leaves they are going to be lost at sea, and their expiring salaries are not going to land them another game changing piece. To weather a rebuild signing Wiggins would go over extremely well with the significant nationalist factions of their fanbase. Provincialism and nationalism are huge issues throughout Canada, especially in Toronto.

If Ujiri leaves Toronto fire everyone and give him 100 million to do whatever the hell he wants. It seems like what I've been hearing Kwahi might actually stay there. If he leaves sure maybe Wiggins can land there. The reality is this offseason IF the Wolves decide to move on there will he teams that didn't sign anyone that have space that might want a guy like that. Heck what if Leonard stays in Toronto and the Clipper strike out. Yeah I doubt it but what if Thibs gets fired and he gives some glowing recommendation of Wiggins to his good friend Doc Rivers. No this is not likely to happen but unexpected deals happen all the time.

To me why deal Wiggins now unless you get some value back? Like you said his value is bad now basically the only way it gets worse if he gets injured or demands out or has some off the court issue. I guess any of that is possible but why not see what we have in this latest roster turnover for a few more games? It's strange to me that Wiggins gets basically no credit for this defensive uptick lately. Meanwhile there is simply no way Wiggins shots under 40% the rest of the season. I mean the guy is shooting 17% on super long 2's. Yep it's a terrible shot but that's ridonkulously bad. He is gonna turn around to some extent and regress back to the mean somewhat.

I'm with you 100% on waiting to get value. My only point is that Toronto is a tortured franchise that has had a good run under Ujiri. They like us haven't been able to ever sign a Free agent of note. They've had multiple big stars leave. Maybe Kawhi will stay there. I'd be shocked, but Ujiri seems like quite the personality.

monsterpile wrote:

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:At this point Wiggins is just hurting the team. Sure he shows flashes but he just isn't helping in the big picture right now. I'd like to win some games and I think he would be addition by subtraction for us.

If we can offload his ridiculous contract and pick up a solid role player along the way I'm all for that.

As far as giving up a first round pick to do it goes.... Let's be real here, It's not like we have a great track record when drafting players anyways so I would gladly give up a pick to get rid of him because it's not "just about cap space"

Trade Wiggins for nothing fine but I don't care how bad this franchise has been at drafting we shouldn't PAY to get rid of Wiggins. Someone Will want him for basically nothing.

FWIW Wolfson said for fun he asked someone with ties to the Wizards if they would do a deal Wiggins for Porter and they said no.

I would love to get rid of Wiggins without attaching a pick. That would be great but I don't think anybody in their right mind would take on his contract for nothing. Sure teams would like wiggins for his potential but not on a max deal with that many bad years left. Also I wouldn't want any part of Otto Porter either. He's another overpay in my opinion.

On a positive note at least we won last night and Wiggins had a decent box score. I went to bed after the first half... haha big mistake

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:At this point Wiggins is just hurting the team. Sure he shows flashes but he just isn't helping in the big picture right now. I'd like to win some games and I think he would be addition by subtraction for us.

If we can offload his ridiculous contract and pick up a solid role player along the way I'm all for that.

As far as giving up a first round pick to do it goes.... Let's be real here, It's not like we have a great track record when drafting players anyways so I would gladly give up a pick to get rid of him because it's not "just about cap space"

Trade Wiggins for nothing fine but I don't care how bad this franchise has been at drafting we shouldn't PAY to get rid of Wiggins. Someone Will want him for basically nothing.

FWIW Wolfson said for fun he asked someone with ties to the Wizards if they would do a deal Wiggins for Porter and they said no.

I would love to get rid of Wiggins without attaching a pick. That would be great but I don't think anybody in their right mind would take on his contract for nothing. Sure teams would like wiggins for his potential but not on a max deal with that many bad years left. Also I wouldn't want any part of Otto Porter either. He's another overpay in my opinion.

On a positive note at least we won last night and Wiggins had a decent box score. I went to bed after the first half... haha big mistake

Interestingly, Wiggins' impact last night goes far beyond any boxscore.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:At this point Wiggins is just hurting the team. Sure he shows flashes but he just isn't helping in the big picture right now. I'd like to win some games and I think he would be addition by subtraction for us.

If we can offload his ridiculous contract and pick up a solid role player along the way I'm all for that.

As far as giving up a first round pick to do it goes.... Let's be real here, It's not like we have a great track record when drafting players anyways so I would gladly give up a pick to get rid of him because it's not "just about cap space"

Trade Wiggins for nothing fine but I don't care how bad this franchise has been at drafting we shouldn't PAY to get rid of Wiggins. Someone Will want him for basically nothing.

FWIW Wolfson said for fun he asked someone with ties to the Wizards if they would do a deal Wiggins for Porter and they said no.

I would love to get rid of Wiggins without attaching a pick. That would be great but I don't think anybody in their right mind would take on his contract for nothing. Sure teams would like wiggins for his potential but not on a max deal with that many bad years left. Also I wouldn't want any part of Otto Porter either. He's another overpay in my opinion.

On a positive note at least we won last night and Wiggins had a decent box score. I went to bed after the first half... haha big mistake

Interestingly, Wiggins' impact last night goes far beyond any boxscore.

Abe I'm sure it did as I stated I didn't watch the second half and to be honest not a lot of the first half with Monday night football being on. The games I have watched this year mostly show him hurting the team when he's out there. He even had a recent game where thibs had to bench him in the 4th quarter and then we magically went on a run to blow them out.

He always seems to take a bonehead shot or make a terrible passing decision. Watching on FSN you can see the announcers hold their toungue when he does this more than they would like for the sake of their job.

His defense is getting better but his efficiency numbers are terrible. I like wiggins alot but not with that contract.

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:At this point Wiggins is just hurting the team. Sure he shows flashes but he just isn't helping in the big picture right now. I'd like to win some games and I think he would be addition by subtraction for us.

If we can offload his ridiculous contract and pick up a solid role player along the way I'm all for that.

As far as giving up a first round pick to do it goes.... Let's be real here, It's not like we have a great track record when drafting players anyways so I would gladly give up a pick to get rid of him because it's not "just about cap space"

Trade Wiggins for nothing fine but I don't care how bad this franchise has been at drafting we shouldn't PAY to get rid of Wiggins. Someone Will want him for basically nothing.

FWIW Wolfson said for fun he asked someone with ties to the Wizards if they would do a deal Wiggins for Porter and they said no.

I would love to get rid of Wiggins without attaching a pick. That would be great but I don't think anybody in their right mind would take on his contract for nothing. Sure teams would like wiggins for his potential but not on a max deal with that many bad years left. Also I wouldn't want any part of Otto Porter either. He's another overpay in my opinion.

On a positive note at least we won last night and Wiggins had a decent box score. I went to bed after the first half... haha big mistake

Interestingly, Wiggins' impact last night goes far beyond any boxscore.

Abe I'm sure it did as I stated I didn't watch the second half and to be honest not a lot of the first half with Monday night football being on. The games I have watched this year mostly show him hurting the team when he's out there. He even had a recent game where thibs had to bench him in the 4th quarter and then we magically went on a run to blow them out.

He always seems to take a bonehead shot or make a terrible passing decision. Watching on FSN you can see the announcers hold their toungue when he does this more than they would like for the sake of their job.

His defense is getting better but his efficiency numbers are terrible. I like wiggins alot but not with that contract.

You appear to be a new guy here.

You don't need to sell me on any Wiggins criticism. https://minnesotasports.enjin.com/forum/m/15059925/viewthread/32333019-official-i-hate-andrew-wiggins-thread

haha my bad Abe

I used to dabble on here every now and then after espn went to shit. I couldn't tell you for the life of me my screen name though. As for the post in the link lol I had a good laugh when I read it :LOL: