Minnesota Sports Forum

apollotsg wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:Fix the US first for once. Not that I don't care about Hong Kong, I care more about myself, my family, neighbors and community, heck even state and country before China.

-The US imprisons the highest percentage of people in the entire World! Most for petty drug possessions or sales.
-The US has one of the highest overall tax rates, which most are hidden and disproportionately effect the poor (Tariffs, Regulation costs, Payroll taxes, Gasoline taxes, Cigarette, Alcohol, etc.).
-The US spends Ten times more on military then any other Country.
-The US has a major homeless problem, while the rich have had their wealth more then doubled in just the last ten years.
-The US still has lots uninsured people for healthcare, many who make too much to get welfare, but too little to afford it.

All your bullets are hogwash, sir.

We have the highest per 100k BUT...we also solve the vast majority of our crime, unlike most other countries - OR the countries (like China and Russia for example) do not report accurate information.

No, sorry but all petty drug use people are NOT in prison - that stopped a long time ago. The past 3 presidents have released the prisoners who had non-violent drug crimes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

Taxes - ugh - not sure what you are talking about...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

Military spending - we are obligated to spend a particular % of our GDP on the military per NATO, we stay right at that number. China and Russia, along with all the other not so free places do not report their actual spending. That said, no we dont spend 10x all other countries.

Homeless and rich - what - that is all made up. I am not saying there is not a wealth inequality issue in the US and its growing, but perhaps you should look around the world to see what bad is - visit Ukraine or any Middle Eastern country - or try all of South America. You will see its a world problem.

Healthcare argument is old - you should have tossed that out there 10 years ago. There needs to be improvements but I am willing to bet many of the people not insured are stubborn republicans.

They are not "my" bullets. They are facts.

I'll keep it simple.

I know people in jail for selling drugs. I know people sentenced to 9 years. So yes, those are unfortunate facts. I'm sorry if you think "solving" problems by incarcerating the most people in the world by percentage is actually solving anything. The prison system is run by money. Many prisons, maybe most are private corporations. The more people in prison, the more profit. Marijuana is a Federal schedule 1 drug. Listed as harmful as Heroin, yet anyone can get a prescription for "legal" opiates like Oxy. Crack is made from Cocaine with the addition of baking soda. Cocaine and Crack have completely separate sentencing guidelines. Another proof. The War on drugs is a war on the poor. It never solved anything.

Why would you say Russia and China are "not so free". Do I know for sure what they spend? No I don't. My stat is that the US spends 10 times more than China or Russia, which I find probable considering how much war the US is involved in constantly. I can't even name all the Countries in the last 20 years! Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc........... Does this seem logical to you? Most of the money for military is simply stolen through cronyism. I would assume you know what that that is. BTW- Who gives a flying whatever what NATO says. Stop policing the world with my tax dollars. How about taking care of the dilapidated roads and bridges? Healthcare? Spending money killing people is never a smart decision.

If the U.S. is a "first" world country then why is the homeless problem growing? These are facts, but yet you and many try to ignore it. Denial of the real problems here at home. Which is of course, why the media won't talk about them. I'm not "mad at" the rich. Money though is a competition. The more one person has, the less the rest will have. So having much of the money in the hands of the few gives them most of the power. I saw a stat that the richest 1% have more wealth than the bottom 50% combined. That's why we have homeless tent cities.

Just because healthcare argument is old doesn't make it any less valid, in fact it's even more valid now. By always accepting poor results you become conditioned to them.

WolvesFan, No question the U.S. has plenty of problems, but that wasn't the initial topic in the whole debate (or at least I don't think it was).

The issue is the hypocrisy of the NBA and its leading voices taking a vocal stand on issues in the U.S. and even pulling an all-star game out of a city due to a bathroom law versus clamming up and not addressing these fundamental questions of freedom that have come up via the Hong Kong protests.

Again, the NBA would have much more credibility if it was apolitical (like most businesses) OR if they held true to their stated values consistently (whether one agrees with them or not). In this case, it appears that Silver and some of the leading voices in the coaching community want to have it both ways. In one country they do business in, they exercise their freedom of speech vocally and yank games from cities whose state legislatures they disagree with. In another country they do business in, they cower from controversy and claim cultural ignorance. Not a good look.

Q12543 wrote:WolvesFan, No question the U.S. has plenty of problems, but that wasn't the initial topic in the whole debate (or at least I don't think it was).

The issue is the hypocrisy of the NBA and its leading voices taking a vocal stand on issues in the U.S. and even pulling an all-star game out of a city due to a bathroom law versus clamming up and not addressing these fundamental questions of freedom that have come up via the Hong Kong protests.

Again, the NBA would have much more credibility if it was apolitical (like most businesses) OR if they held true to their stated values consistently (whether one agrees with them or not). In this case, it appears that Silver and some of the leading voices in the coaching community want to have it both ways. In one country they do business in, they exercise their freedom of speech vocally and yank games from cities whose state legislatures they disagree with. In another country they do business in, they cower from controversy and claim cultural ignorance. Not a good look.

I understand the hypocrisy for sure. To me, it just doesn't matter. It just frustrates me when seemingly the vast majority of americans ignore our own problems while worrying about others. Things should be getting better not worse for society! I hate to say it, but it is by design. The media doesn't talk about real U.S. problems (if rarely) so they don't change. The media conglomerates (6 large ones) are owned by very rich people, they are a huge part of the problem. We don't have a free press, it's just another big business for sale to the highest bidders. Same with the Military system, same with the Prison system. All run by money and greed. People will say, i'm just doing my job. You heard all I really have to add. I generally won't talk "regular politics" because it's all a sham, political theater, meaningless drivel.

Gotta love when a guy like Lebron says he's not informed enough on the situation and then a minute later says Morey was/is misinformed and doesn't know enough to comment on it. How do you know Morey is misinformed on a topic you yourself say you don't know enough about to comment on? You can't say Morey is wrong if you yourself won't comment on what's right.

Edit: he said he wasn't educated on the situation and just tweeted. Unbelievable. Everyone just throwing Morey under the bus for a buck.

Morey's the only one in this whole ordeal that has a pair of balls and happens to be on the right side of all of this, regardless of what the liberal personalities around the league have to say.

Looks like the nba players are in full support of china and their practices.

I just have to say, I'm proud of the posters on this forum in regard to this issue. A lot of well informed people here not afraid to tell it like it is. Well done guys.

"Don't mess with my ability to make more money... at any cost."

- LeBron James

Jay Williams had some pretty rough comments for LBJ - but he said some things that just a month ago would have resulted in significant social media backlash, the whole shut up and dribble thing.

Watching the LBJ video is even worse than the written part. He really did just slam someone for interfering with him making money and he is pissed about the lost revenue. The argument for LBJ: his stance is no different than Apple and Nike - two large companies that have historically profited significantly on partnering with China and their poor human rights manufacturing. So if it is good for X why isnt it ok for Y - and I agree with him on that. But him telling Morey to shut up and dribble is very hypocritical.

The past few years the world, starting here in the US, has become more social conscience with more and more all in or all out on issues. There are millions of religious prisoners in China, there are millions in political prison as well.

Here is another tidbit to ponder - the people in HK are waving US flags at their protests - think about that and what that means. Purge all your BS political agenda crap and think about it. A person rising up against his government asking them to stop treating them poorly and they are beaten down, and they are using the US flag as a symbol for what they are fighting for...think about it...and then LBJ complains about his revenue stream being impacted.

Some on here have said we need to focus on here and ignore what happens elsewhere - that's a pretty myopic stance. It really illustrates the lack of knowledge of the avg joe in what happens in the rest of the world and how that impacts us. Go spend some time in Africa and Asia to see what poverty and oppression by a gov look like. Chinas business practices are strangely similar to the European colonization of the old days, China has modernized this with its trade/manufacturing/business deals.

The Chinese Communist government considers its economy as part of the military, if the Chinese economy is harmed, it hurts their national defense - its a significant difference from the rest of the worlds view. Their wholesale unapologetic theft of intellectual property from anyone is being done at unprecedented levels - and there is a direct correlation between the beginning of their industrial espionage and the growth of their economy.

The action of one impacts us all in today's world. For example...In Somalia they were primarily camel herders which dried up as a source of income, over a long period they shifted to fishing despite not being a fishing culture - then the Chinese government-run fishing companies purged their entire fishing areas through unsustainable industrial fishing practices. They had significant civil wars due to the economy crashing - lots of death - then we go to help and we lost lives - I lost friends... Now they switch to being pirates - that's been crushed by China so what is next? Another civil war, more displacement - it's not good for anyone. So for most of you driving around the TC, now you have more insight in the origin story for our newest community members. So your neighbor's entire life might have been upended by shitty practices of another country resulting in them leaving everything they know and have to start over in a country that has a portion of it that doesnt want them here. And despite that, they feel it is still better here...just saying...

Just watched Lebron's comments...yeah I agree he dumped on Morey despite basically claiming. Doesn't know enough to really comment on the situation. Not a good look.

Meanwhile do I blame the NBA and even LeBron for basically hoping this all goes away. To some extent no. Why? I don't think they have the influence to make a difference especially what it would cost them. Should they have supported Morey more? Yes I think so even if I think it was very tricky. LeBron could have said Something along the lines of what he did Later in his talk with the media that Morey didn't think of the consequences etc but not say the guy was basically misinformed. That was pretty brutal even though he tried to clarify it in a tweet later.

Other times the NBA (and in some cases other entities) have stood up for causes because...they thought their power influence and $$$$$ could make a difference. I don't think even if they went bonkers and severed all ties with China it would make a difference in the outcome in that country although it would probably give some hope. Does that make it right? No but again there are battles to be fought and it makes sense to choose battles. A few posters have brought up a number of things to consider both here in this country as well as in others. Some more historical context has been added. It's worth remembering Silver works for the owners and obviously much more now (Especially compared to when David Stern was commish) the players as well. I think many here have outlined how they think all those entities reacted...they want to keep their money. I'm sure there are some who want to take a stronger stand but the majority wants to make this go away and wants to not lose a bunch money money...which would include players. If the cap drops every player is going to lose some Real money. Let's look at it this way. Would you want to risk losing some money because of an international situation you didn't Ben know about a couple days ago because someone tweeted out something? Maybe you would do the work to figure it out. Id hope I would also. This did Kinda come out of nowhere. I'm not suggesting we feel sorry for these players owners etc but I try and figure out why people do the things they do. I feel more bad for Morey who was tweeting like a human being but...he probably should have considered the consequences (Which I don't think he did)...that's part of the trade off of being a high profile person. But yes being told to shut up and dribble...not cool. Hopefully there is something we can take from this in our own lives.