CoolBreeze44 wrote:The only reason we should consider trading one of our young stars is the redundancy of Wiggins and Lavine. After 13 years of futility we finally have some young studs to build around. In what sane world do you jettison that plan at this point? We are still in the position that a lot of the teams would love to find themselves in, a realistic chance to contend for a championship for several years. We have another huge draft asset to use as another building block to our core, and plenty of financial flexibility to add the right pieces. I hope the front office avoids the temptation to try and improve marginally by dealing one of core pieces. That would be a mistake. Stay the course, add to what we have, and i believe we will be rewarded sooner than later.
Agree with the first sentence in bold.
Don't know about the second bolded sentence though. I don't know how realistic championship contention is. The Wolves are very very far away right now. And it goes beyond a better bench. The two marquee players of the future have to improve exponentially themselves. Wiggins is obviously promising, but after three years, he's not a sure thing. At some point, the age angle can't be his crutch.
That being said, this offseason should be interesting. And telling. I'm cool with only changes around the margins... finding the right kind of player to complement Wiggins and Towns. And a quality veteran starter. Anything less than .500 from this team next season (Wiggins in Year 4... Towns in Year 3) is a very very bad sign. Elite basketball players (difference makers) figure out a way to win sooner than later.
Abe, 23.5 ppg on 45.3% shooting and 35.6% from 3, how much more of a sure thing does he need to be? I'm sure you are thinking of other aspects of his game, and those things have been debated to death here so I'm not getting into them. But being a top 15 scorer in the league at age 21-22 should alone be enough to consider him a sure thing.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The only reason we should consider trading one of our young stars is the redundancy of Wiggins and Lavine. After 13 years of futility we finally have some young studs to build around. In what sane world do you jettison that plan at this point? We are still in the position that a lot of the teams would love to find themselves in, a realistic chance to contend for a championship for several years. We have another huge draft asset to use as another building block to our core, and plenty of financial flexibility to add the right pieces. I hope the front office avoids the temptation to try and improve marginally by dealing one of core pieces. That would be a mistake. Stay the course, add to what we have, and i believe we will be rewarded sooner than later.
I agree, Cool. The best things about Thibs/Layden thus far has been their patience. This season has been terribly disappointing. We have, in my view, clearly underachieved given our talent compared to the talent of teams like the Kings who have the same WL record as us. But this was Thibs' first season as head coach and our guys a still very young. Moreover, we clearly have a bad bench, which can be improved through free agency and, perhaps, minor trades. As I've said repeatedly for over a year, the Wolves chances of becoming a championship contender rise and fall with the development of the young core we have. If it doesn't happen with these guys, then this franchise will need to blow it up and start over. But it's WAY too early to blow it up and still too soon to tinker with our core.
No trade. Draft Miles Bridges, sign Paul Milsap, Wigs slides to SG full time. Realistic? Maybe not, Milsap is unrestricted because he's looking for max money or close to it, same with Taj.
Dream scenario - we trade down get two picks from Portland, end up with Miles Bridges and Ivan Rabb. Hey, it's a dream. Can anyone see us trading down?
I'm probably in the minority, but see no need to make any drastic changes - especially at the expense of our core group.
The biggest glaring hole is size on the wing - someone who can body up with the likes of the Paul George and Lebron James' of the league. My fav candidate is James Johnson. Hard nose two way player who can handle the ball, pass, score and defend. A two year deal worth around 36 mil should get it done.
Draft BPA with pick (Lauri Markannan?). Decline team option on Jordan Hill. Let Payne walk. Offer Bazz a two year 18 mil deal (take it or leave it). Resign Rush to the vet min. Bring LaVine off the bench as 6th man until he recovers completely. Sign a cheap rotation big man.
Rubio / Dunn / Jones
Wiggins / LaVine / Rush
Johnson / Muhammad
Dieng / Bjelica / Markannan
KAT / Aldrich / FA
KiwiMatt wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but see no need to make any drastic changes - especially at the expense of our core group.
The biggest glaring hole is size on the wing - someone who can body up with the likes of the Paul George and Lebron James' of the league. My fav candidate is James Johnson. Hard nose two way player who can handle the ball, pass, score and defend. A two year deal worth around 36 mil should get it done.
Draft BPA with pick (Lauri Markannan?). Decline team option on Jordan Hill. Let Payne walk. Offer Bazz a two year 18 mil deal (take it or leave it). Resign Rush to the vet min. Bring LaVine off the bench as 6th man until he recovers completely. Sign a cheap rotation big man.
Rubio / Dunn / Jones
Wiggins / LaVine / Rush
Johnson / Muhammad
Dieng / Bjelica / Markannan
KAT / Aldrich / FA
We just can't go into next year with KAT, Dieng and Belly as our frontcourt. 2 straight years of just inconsistent play and terrible defense says we need a more stable veteran in the frontcourt. We need a PJ Tucker on the wing, a Taj Gibson in the frontcourt and a Lou Williams in the backcourt. Zach may be that Lou Williams, he may not, but we need a scoring threat off the bench who can do it off the dribble. That's a lot to add in one offseason, but that's what we need plus the continued growth of our existing players to be a playoff team.
KiwiMatt wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but see no need to make any drastic changes - especially at the expense of our core group.
The biggest glaring hole is size on the wing - someone who can body up with the likes of the Paul George and Lebron James' of the league. My fav candidate is James Johnson. Hard nose two way player who can handle the ball, pass, score and defend. A two year deal worth around 36 mil should get it done.
Draft BPA with pick (Lauri Markannan?). Decline team option on Jordan Hill. Let Payne walk. Offer Bazz a two year 18 mil deal (take it or leave it). Resign Rush to the vet min. Bring LaVine off the bench as 6th man until he recovers completely. Sign a cheap rotation big man.
Rubio / Dunn / Jones
Wiggins / LaVine / Rush
Johnson / Muhammad
Dieng / Bjelica / Markannan
KAT / Aldrich / FA
We just can't go into next year with KAT, Dieng and Belly as our frontcourt. 2 straight years of just inconsistent play and terrible defense says we need a more stable veteran in the frontcourt. We need a PJ Tucker on the wing, a Taj Gibson in the frontcourt and a Lou Williams in the backcourt. Zach may be that Lou Williams, he may not, but we need a scoring threat off the bench who can do it off the dribble. That's a lot to add in one offseason, but that's what we need plus the continued growth of our existing players to be a playoff team.
There needs to be a 3 - 5 year plan. We simply can not afford all those players with out jeopardising being able to resign Wiggins, LaVine and KAT. I agree with frontcourt toughness and defence being an issue, but believe toughness on the wing is the bigger issue. A Tucker or Johnson type player makes absolute sense - someone who can play the 3 and small ball 4. There's no reason KAT can't develop into a legit defender - he has all the tools.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The only reason we should consider trading one of our young stars is the redundancy of Wiggins and Lavine. After 13 years of futility we finally have some young studs to build around. In what sane world do you jettison that plan at this point? We are still in the position that a lot of the teams would love to find themselves in, a realistic chance to contend for a championship for several years. We have another huge draft asset to use as another building block to our core, and plenty of financial flexibility to add the right pieces. I hope the front office avoids the temptation to try and improve marginally by dealing one of core pieces. That would be a mistake. Stay the course, add to what we have, and i believe we will be rewarded sooner than later.
Agree with the first sentence in bold.
Don't know about the second bolded sentence though. I don't know how realistic championship contention is. The Wolves are very very far away right now. And it goes beyond a better bench. The two marquee players of the future have to improve exponentially themselves. Wiggins is obviously promising, but after three years, he's not a sure thing. At some point, the age angle can't be his crutch.
That being said, this offseason should be interesting. And telling. I'm cool with only changes around the margins... finding the right kind of player to complement Wiggins and Towns. And a quality veteran starter. Anything less than .500 from this team next season (Wiggins in Year 4... Towns in Year 3) is a very very bad sign. Elite basketball players (difference makers) figure out a way to win sooner than later.
Abe, 23.5 ppg on 45.3% shooting and 35.6% from 3, how much more of a sure thing does he need to be? I'm sure you are thinking of other aspects of his game, and those things have been debated to death here so I'm not getting into them. But being a top 15 scorer in the league at age 21-22 should alone be enough to consider him a sure thing.
I should have been more clear. Wiggins is a sure thing as a scorer. But that doesn't make him a sure thing to be an elite player like so many of us want him to be... and what he'd have to be to make the 2nd half of a championship contender with Towns.
I was talking in context of championship in response to your post.
KiwiMatt wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but see no need to make any drastic changes - especially at the expense of our core group.
The biggest glaring hole is size on the wing - someone who can body up with the likes of the Paul George and Lebron James' of the league. My fav candidate is James Johnson. Hard nose two way player who can handle the ball, pass, score and defend. A two year deal worth around 36 mil should get it done.
Draft BPA with pick (Lauri Markannan?). Decline team option on Jordan Hill. Let Payne walk. Offer Bazz a two year 18 mil deal (take it or leave it). Resign Rush to the vet min. Bring LaVine off the bench as 6th man until he recovers completely. Sign a cheap rotation big man.
Rubio / Dunn / Jones
Wiggins / LaVine / Rush
Johnson / Muhammad
Dieng / Bjelica / Markannan
KAT / Aldrich / FA
We just can't go into next year with KAT, Dieng and Belly as our frontcourt. 2 straight years of just inconsistent play and terrible defense says we need a more stable veteran in the frontcourt. We need a PJ Tucker on the wing, a Taj Gibson in the frontcourt and a Lou Williams in the backcourt. Zach may be that Lou Williams, he may not, but we need a scoring threat off the bench who can do it off the dribble. That's a lot to add in one offseason, but that's what we need plus the continued growth of our existing players to be a playoff team.
There needs to be a 3 - 5 year plan. We simply can not afford all those players with out jeopardising being able to resign Wiggins, LaVine and KAT. I agree with frontcourt toughness and defence being an issue, but believe toughness on the wing is the bigger issue. A Tucker or Johnson type player makes absolute sense - someone who can play the 3 and small ball 4. There's no reason KAT can't develop into a legit defender - he has all the tools.
Wing toughness just isn't more important than getting guys who know how to defend the rim which we currently don't have a single player who can do that. Belly may not be in the long-term plans. Dieng may need to be dealt if this is his best basketball at his price tag. KAT is still two years away from his pay day. In 3-5 years, Wiggins, KAT and Zach may be the only 3 guys still on the team from today. 3-5 years is just thinking way too far into the future. Guys can be moved if they need to be. This team needs defense at the rim as the top priority. Wing defense is second. You just can't have a good defense with no resistance at the rim. We could play Ricky, Dunn and Wiggins and it wouldn't matter because Dieng and KAT are garbage at protecting the rim. You build defense from the rim out. Towns has yet to prove he can defend at all without an elite defender next to him doing most of the work.
KiwiMatt wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but see no need to make any drastic changes - especially at the expense of our core group.
The biggest glaring hole is size on the wing - someone who can body up with the likes of the Paul George and Lebron James' of the league. My fav candidate is James Johnson. Hard nose two way player who can handle the ball, pass, score and defend. A two year deal worth around 36 mil should get it done.
Draft BPA with pick (Lauri Markannan?). Decline team option on Jordan Hill. Let Payne walk. Offer Bazz a two year 18 mil deal (take it or leave it). Resign Rush to the vet min. Bring LaVine off the bench as 6th man until he recovers completely. Sign a cheap rotation big man.
Rubio / Dunn / Jones
Wiggins / LaVine / Rush
Johnson / Muhammad
Dieng / Bjelica / Markannan
KAT / Aldrich / FA
I like James Johnson but 18 mil per for him is far too much. I'd offer him 12 mil per. I still think the target should be Patrick Patterson for 15 mil ish. Starting stretch pf who can defend in the post and on the perimeter. A poor mans Millsap.
This also allows both Wiggins and LaVine to start (which they should).
I wonder what the price tag would be on Patrick Patterson. I think he would be a nice fit here as a compliment to Dieng because we need a perimeter oriented PF. How much would I spend on him though? He is a solid player but how much do you pay a guy that's never averaged 27mpg in his career for both good and not so good teams? I've always kinda like him as a player but I don't like the idea of overspending for a fringe starter. Ilyasova is another guy I would be interested in depending on the price. I actually like him more than Patterson.
I don't see any top level FAs (or players coming via trade) joining the Wolves. If it happens yay I guess but I'm not going to spend much time considering it. I'll be looking at solid upgrades or maybe undervalued guys that the Wolves can get. There could be some small trades the Wolves could make too. i honestly think the biggest jump for this team is going to be the current player on the roster playing for the same coach in the same system and knowing what they are supposed to do and maturing naturally. People are tired of hearing that but it is a big deal.
