Minnesota Sports Forum

PorkChop wrote:Rubies been better than the other two and it's put us exactly 3 spots lower in the lottery than last year . Sooooo

papalrep wrote:Just curious, has the Turkish wing Flip traded for Tyus done anything?

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.

I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.

Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.

I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.

Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.

I would say the evidence is mixed at best, khans. I think Thibs proved in Chicago that he could lead a mostly veteran team to consistent regular season success and post-season failure. With some minor exceptions, I don't see much evidence of his making 20 year olds much better in Chicago, but I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this conclusion if someone can provide contrary evidence.

He's only had one season in Minnesota, but early returns here are that he is not effective in developing young players...especially on the defensive end. He may have been a 50-win coach with a vet team, but he's going to be an underachieving 30-win coach with this young team. Again, I'm open to hearing contrary evidence to prove me wrong. I really want to be wrong about Thibs, but I'm not finding much that is positive this year except perhaps for the revival of Rubio.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.

I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.

Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.

I would say the evidence is mixed at best, khans. I think Thibs proved in Chicago that he could lead a mostly veteran team to consistent regular season success and post-season failure. With some minor exceptions, I don't see much evidence of his making 20 year olds much better in Chicago, but I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this conclusion if someone can provide contrary evidence.

He's only had one season in Minnesota, but early returns here are that he is not effective in developing young players...especially on the defensive end. He may have been a 50-win coach with a vet team, but he's going to be an underachieving 30-win coach with this young team. Again, I'm open to hearing contrary evidence to prove me wrong. I really want to be wrong about Thibs, but I'm not finding much that is positive this year except perhaps for the revival of Rubio.

Wolfson's asked Sam Mitchell if this year was disappointing for this team and he said he could only have said what his expectations would have been if he was coaching the team. He said an 8-9 win jump would have been good and then the next year they would be a playoff team and that was if he was coaching. He relatable said he wouldn't comment on the expectations for how this team performed because he didn't know what the expectations were from the coaching staff this year. I thought that was interesting and it was a good way of getting around saying anything but it did seem Sam was genuine in what he said not trying to skirt the question.

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.

I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.

Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.

I would say the evidence is mixed at best, khans. I think Thibs proved in Chicago that he could lead a mostly veteran team to consistent regular season success and post-season failure. With some minor exceptions, I don't see much evidence of his making 20 year olds much better in Chicago, but I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this conclusion if someone can provide contrary evidence.

He's only had one season in Minnesota, but early returns here are that he is not effective in developing young players...especially on the defensive end. He may have been a 50-win coach with a vet team, but he's going to be an underachieving 30-win coach with this young team. Again, I'm open to hearing contrary evidence to prove me wrong. I really want to be wrong about Thibs, but I'm not finding much that is positive this year except perhaps for the revival of Rubio.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.

I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.

Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.

I would say the evidence is mixed at best, khans. I think Thibs proved in Chicago that he could lead a mostly veteran team to consistent regular season success and post-season failure. With some minor exceptions, I don't see much evidence of his making 20 year olds much better in Chicago, but I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this conclusion if someone can provide contrary evidence.

He's only had one season in Minnesota, but early returns here are that he is not effective in developing young players...especially on the defensive end. He may have been a 50-win coach with a vet team, but he's going to be an underachieving 30-win coach with this young team. Again, I'm open to hearing contrary evidence to prove me wrong. I really want to be wrong about Thibs, but I'm not finding much that is positive this year except perhaps for the revival of Rubio.

Wolfson's asked Sam Mitchell if this year was disappointing for this team and he said he could only have said what his expectations would have been if he was coaching the team. He said an 8-9 win jump would have been good and then the next year they would be a playoff team and that was if he was coaching. He relatable said he wouldn't comment on the expectations for how this team performed because he didn't know what the expectations were from the coaching staff this year. I thought that was interesting and it was a good way of getting around saying anything but it did seem Sam was genuine in what he said not trying to skirt the question.

That's interesting, monster...didn't see that interview. So, Sam is saying he thinks he would have only coached the Wolves to 37 or 38 wins is he had stayed coaching. I think most of us here would have been really disappointed with that result, just as most of us are really disappointed with this year's 31-win total.

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.

I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.

Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.

I would say the evidence is mixed at best, khans. I think Thibs proved in Chicago that he could lead a mostly veteran team to consistent regular season success and post-season failure. With some minor exceptions, I don't see much evidence of his making 20 year olds much better in Chicago, but I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this conclusion if someone can provide contrary evidence.

He's only had one season in Minnesota, but early returns here are that he is not effective in developing young players...especially on the defensive end. He may have been a 50-win coach with a vet team, but he's going to be an underachieving 30-win coach with this young team. Again, I'm open to hearing contrary evidence to prove me wrong. I really want to be wrong about Thibs, but I'm not finding much that is positive this year except perhaps for the revival of Rubio.

Well he turned Rose into an MVP. He turned Butler into an All-Star. He turned Noah into a defensive player of the year candidate. He developed Gibson. He made Asik millions making him look way better than he is.

When Thibs took over in 2010:
Rose year 2
Noah year 3
Gibson year 1
Drafts Jimmy Butler in 2011

Bulls went from 41-41 in 2009-10 to 62-20 in the first year under Thibs. He had help from vets like Dieng, Boozer and Korver, but Rose, Noah, Gibson and Butler were all developed under him.

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:
Well he turned Rose into an MVP. He turned Butler into an All-Star. He turned Noah into a defensive player of the year candidate. He developed Gibson. He made Asik millions making him look way better than he is.

When Thibs took over in 2010:
Rose year 2
Noah year 3
Gibson year 1
Drafts Jimmy Butler in 2011

Bulls went from 41-41 in 2009-10 to 62-20 in the first year under Thibs. He had help from vets like Dieng, Boozer and Korver, but Rose, Noah, Gibson and Butler were all developed under him.

Good stuff, Khans...that makes me feel better about having Thibs coaching our young guys. I always thought of those Bulls teams as being veteran teams, but your post shows they were built more like this year's Wolves than I thought. Thx for your post!