Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Here is the other thing about Boston. Of their top 6 guys getting minutes in the playoffs, two are rookies (Ojeleye and Tatum); one is a 2nd year player (Brown); and one is a 3rd year player (Rozier). And off to the second round they go.....

KAT and Wiggins would be considered grizzled vets on this squad, yet some still think of them as NBA neophytes. They certainly played like neophytes at times this past season!

I'm a big fan of Brad Stevens. The Wolves roster is certainly more experienced and, I would argue, more talented than the Celtics. I wonder how the two teams would have finished this season if we had swapped coaches in October.

Count me in on those lavishing Stevens with love... but honestly, I don't know.

The players have to buy in to what the coach is saying, too. It works both ways. Personally, from what I saw from Wiggins after "promising" to play harder... I'm not convinced Stevens was getting that guy to compete consistently any more than Thibs did.

Maybe he'd have used him better. Put him in other spots. But when questions about "effort" come before and after a guy signs a $146.5M deal... it's a red flag.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Here is the other thing about Boston. Of their top 6 guys getting minutes in the playoffs, two are rookies (Ojeleye and Tatum); one is a 2nd year player (Brown); and one is a 3rd year player (Rozier). And off to the second round they go.....

KAT and Wiggins would be considered grizzled vets on this squad, yet some still think of them as NBA neophytes. They certainly played like neophytes at times this past season!

I'm a big fan of Brad Stevens. The Wolves roster is certainly more experienced and, I would argue, more talented than the Celtics. I wonder how the two teams would have finished this season if we had swapped coaches in October.

If we swapped Horford for Towns straight up we would have been the 3 seed regardless of Jimmy's injury. Horford is a stud on defense who just lacks the flash for people to notice. He's anchored great defenses pretty much his whole career. That defensive boost and his ability to move the ball and stretch the floor would have made us a much better team in the short term. He's the kind of player who elevates his whole team and most people just don't notice it enough. Looking back on those Hawks teams and how Teague/Korver/Carroll/Milsap have played on new teams is an eye opener when you consider just how good that team was without a true star. Well I think Horford has been that guy and just nobody has noticed.

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Here is the other thing about Boston. Of their top 6 guys getting minutes in the playoffs, two are rookies (Ojeleye and Tatum); one is a 2nd year player (Brown); and one is a 3rd year player (Rozier). And off to the second round they go.....

KAT and Wiggins would be considered grizzled vets on this squad, yet some still think of them as NBA neophytes. They certainly played like neophytes at times this past season!

I'm a big fan of Brad Stevens. The Wolves roster is certainly more experienced and, I would argue, more talented than the Celtics. I wonder how the two teams would have finished this season if we had swapped coaches in October.

If we swapped Horford for Towns straight up we would have been the 3 seed regardless of Jimmy's injury. Horford is a stud on defense who just lacks the flash for people to notice. He's anchored great defenses pretty much his whole career. That defensive boost and his ability to move the ball and stretch the floor would have made us a much better team in the short term. He's the kind of player who elevates his whole team and most people just don't notice it enough. Looking back on those Hawks teams and how Teague/Korver/Carroll/Milsap have played on new teams is an eye opener when you consider just how good that team was without a true star. Well I think Horford has been that guy and just nobody has noticed.

Exactly. Imagine if we had put all our chips on the table for Horford that offseason. Talk about what ifs. Towns and Wiggins would be being talked about for NBA all defense.

Horford is absolutely a guy whose contributions outweigh the basic box score stuff. Everything from screen setting to how he positions himself defensively...he just makes tons of winning plays.

I think eventually Boston runs into too much talent and doesn't come out of the East. But still....imagine if they had a healthy Hayward and Irving!?

Q12543 wrote:Horford is absolutely a guy whose contributions outweigh the basic box score stuff. Everything from screen setting to how he positions himself defensively...he just makes tons of winning plays.

I think eventually Boston runs into too much talent and doesn't come out of the East. But still....imagine if they had a healthy Hayward and Irving!?

They won that game 7 without Jalen Brown for over half the game. They started a rookie against the Bucks best player. They are basically the Spurs east.

Horford knows exactly what to do in the offense and in a 2 man game. He has enough offense to actually make a team pay if they don't play good defense.

I was watching that game and saw Tatum cross up and blow past someone for a dunk and thought to myself "yep all this guy can do is score in iso like Melo and can't shoot 3's and will struggle in defense...riiiiiiight" I wasn't enamored with Tatum but I thought he ended up being underrated but some of the draft experts out there. Of course his coach is Brad Stevens so... :)

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Horford is absolutely a guy whose contributions outweigh the basic box score stuff. Everything from screen setting to how he positions himself defensively...he just makes tons of winning plays.

I think eventually Boston runs into too much talent and doesn't come out of the East. But still....imagine if they had a healthy Hayward and Irving!?

They won that game 7 without Jalen Brown for over half the game. They started a rookie against the Bucks best player. They are basically the Spurs east.

Horford knows exactly what to do in the offense and in a 2 man game. He has enough offense to actually make a team pay if they don't play good defense.

I was watching that game and saw Tatum cross up and blow past someone for a dunk and thought to myself "yep all this guy can do is score in iso like Melo and can't shoot 3's and will struggle in defense...riiiiiiight" I wasn't enamored with Tatum but I thought he ended up being underrated but some of the draft experts out there. Of course his coach is Brad Stevens so... :)

I wasn't a big fan of Jaylen Brown OR Tatum in each of their respective drafts! But yeah....the Brad Stevens factor. Who knows how these guys would have fared in a T-Wolves, Sacramento, or Brooklyn uniform. And then there is Terry Rozier. I mean, this can't just be great drafting. These guys are being coached up in a big way.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Horford is absolutely a guy whose contributions outweigh the basic box score stuff. Everything from screen setting to how he positions himself defensively...he just makes tons of winning plays.

I think eventually Boston runs into too much talent and doesn't come out of the East. But still....imagine if they had a healthy Hayward and Irving!?

They won that game 7 without Jalen Brown for over half the game. They started a rookie against the Bucks best player. They are basically the Spurs east.

Horford knows exactly what to do in the offense and in a 2 man game. He has enough offense to actually make a team pay if they don't play good defense.

I was watching that game and saw Tatum cross up and blow past someone for a dunk and thought to myself "yep all this guy can do is score in iso like Melo and can't shoot 3's and will struggle in defense...riiiiiiight" I wasn't enamored with Tatum but I thought he ended up being underrated but some of the draft experts out there. Of course his coach is Brad Stevens so... :)

I wasn't a big fan of Jaylen Brown OR Tatum in each of their respective drafts! But yeah....the Brad Stevens factor. Who knows how these guys would have fared in a T-Wolves, Sacramento, or Brooklyn uniform. And then there is Terry Rozier. I mean, this can't just be great drafting. These guys are being coached up in a big way.

There is no doubt coaching is having a positive effect. Rozier was a guy I actually liked but I thought he would go later in the draft. So Boston actually took him higher than I valued him. For a while it looked like a meh pick and then...this year he really played well and just kept getting better as time went on. Something similar has happened with Delon Wright. Tyus Jones was picked after both guys and doesn't have the physical gifts but is way younger and is ahead of them as far as development in the NBA. What if he breaks out at 22 or 23? It doesn't seem that crazy looking at the development of these guys or even a Corey Joseph.

Tyus is definitely a player to keep an eye on. He is one of the few Wolves draft picks in recent memory that has improved on both sides of the ball each an every year since being drafted. However, that has been in the context of fairly limited minutes and a fairly limited role. Can he get a bucket when the team really needs one?

Q12543 wrote:Tyus is definitely a player to keep an eye on. He is one of the few Wolves draft picks in recent memory that has improved on both sides of the ball each an every year since being drafted. However, that has been in the context of fairly limited minutes and a fairly limited role. Can he get a bucket when the team really needs one?

I agree. I actually think he can get buckets in crunch time. He's done it is whole career, including his college career where he did it as a freshman against top college competition in the NCAA tournament. He's showed flashes of it in a couple games this past season. I'm afraid the Wolves will end up trading him and have don't have enough confidence in Thibodeau and Layden to trust that we'll get enough value in return.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Tyus is definitely a player to keep an eye on. He is one of the few Wolves draft picks in recent memory that has improved on both sides of the ball each an every year since being drafted. However, that has been in the context of fairly limited minutes and a fairly limited role. Can he get a bucket when the team really needs one?

I agree. I actually think he can get buckets in crunch time. He's done it is whole career, including his college career where he did it as a freshman against top college competition in the NCAA tournament. He's showed flashes of it in a couple games this past season. I'm afraid the Wolves will end up trading him and have don't have enough confidence in Thibodeau and Layden to trust that we'll get enough value in return.

I don't get why people keep thinking Tyus isn't valued by this organization. Sure he should play more but you can say that about almost every bench player. Every year we hear about some Thibs guy taking minutes from him and every year Tyus is the backup PG. Remember too that Teague has been saying for months now Tyus should be playing more and Teague will actually take himself out of a game. I would bet Teague gets traded before Tyus.