Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:I can't argue against that point. I agree this helps us in the next two years, there is no denying that. I also hope this helps build a winning culture. I am a Wolve fan, nothing more, I cling to a hopeful future. If we win? My points be damned.

Currently, my stance is this:
As a small, undesirable, market team, i vehemently disagree with cashing in early. Us diehard fans have waited 13 years to witness the fruit. We finally were on the cusp. We had tons of promise already (for the first time ever!), and were aligned to potentially be the next Goliath. Now, our office has salvaged that. To appease whom? I could put up with 2-5 more years of anticipation. Retooling/rebuilding again after 2-5 years will be much more difficult to digest.

So it's Thibs' responsibility is to get himself fired continuing to build for 2-5 more years and then watching another guy bear the fruit of his labor? You don't get unlimited time to do whatever you want in this league. We had tons of promise going into last year and they won 31 games. That's the whole reason this shakeup is happening. If they delivered on more of that promise last year he likely would have held on to his guns just like he had before i.e. not making the Butler trade last offseason and refusing to dump the 1st round pick he got for Ricky to get more help this season.

TheFuture wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I can't grade him til next year because all these moves will look awful if the results aren't good enough.

The point of this thread seems to be to broach future expectations...

Sure, well that might be easy for you, but for the rest of us.....

Last year: B as POBO, C as coach. He did a nice job keeping our powder dry and making solid moves. But then as head coach, he managed to oversee the deterioration of play in all three of his FA signings - Rush, Aldrich, and Hill. All three had better seasons with their prior team. I mean, really!? Not a single free agent could even maintain their prior production!?

This year's premature grade: B+. Butler trade was a home run and that alone carries a ton of weight. As for the rest of his moves, I'm turning a new phrase out of an old one - I'm "cautiously pessimistic" - which means I generally don't like them, but I can understand the logic and therefore won't go 100% Future on them. They aren't complete dunder-headed moves (like the Payne trade - just a terrible mark on Flip's otherwise solid POBO legacy), but founded in a certain style and player type that Thibs values. I just don't necessarily agree with the price he had to pay for them. And Crawford doesn't address any of our needs IMO. We already have enough shot creators on the team. Do we really need a 5th guy that specailizes in isolation ball and pulling up for 20-foot contested 2 point shots!?

60WinTim wrote:My premature grade is an "A". For what this team needed to get out of its youthful funk, I think he hit home runs with Butler, Teague and Gibson. I understand the questions surrounding Crawford, however, we have not trotted out a bench with a legit vet player for years. Crawford gives the bench credibility.

My "A" also assumes that the great work done so far will help attract some very nice FAs on vet minimum contracts. Doogie just tweeted we have made contact with Luc Mbah a Moute -- someone I thought would be a great target weeks ago.

If Thibs signs Luc, I'll take his grade down from B- to C- for the summer. We don't need a 32%, low volume 3-point shooting PF. Thibs has impulse control problems. You can see it watching his non-stop carping from the bench. Now we're seeing it in his obsession with filling the roster with veteran defensive tough guys in a three-point shooting offensive-oriented League. I like Luc. But we have a couple roster spots left after signing Crawford. Neither one should be used on Luc.

khans2k5 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:I can't argue against that point. I agree this helps us in the next two years, there is no denying that. I also hope this helps build a winning culture. I am a Wolve fan, nothing more, I cling to a hopeful future. If we win? My points be damned.

Currently, my stance is this:
As a small, undesirable, market team, i vehemently disagree with cashing in early. Us diehard fans have waited 13 years to witness the fruit. We finally were on the cusp. We had tons of promise already (for the first time ever!), and were aligned to potentially be the next Goliath. Now, our office has salvaged that. To appease whom? I could put up with 2-5 more years of anticipation. Retooling/rebuilding again after 2-5 years will be much more difficult to digest.

So it's Thibs' responsibility is to get himself fired continuing to build for 2-5 more years and then watching another guy bear the fruit of his labor? You don't get unlimited time to do whatever you want in this league. We had tons of promise going into last year and they won 31 games. That's the whole reason this shakeup is happening. If they delivered on more of that promise last year he likely would have held on to his guns just like he had before i.e. not making the Butler trade last offseason and refusing to dump the 1st round pick he got for Ricky to get more help this season.

So is it the player or the coach?

lipoli390 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:My premature grade is an "A". For what this team needed to get out of its youthful funk, I think he hit home runs with Butler, Teague and Gibson. I understand the questions surrounding Crawford, however, we have not trotted out a bench with a legit vet player for years. Crawford gives the bench credibility.

My "A" also assumes that the great work done so far will help attract some very nice FAs on vet minimum contracts. Doogie just tweeted we have made contact with Luc Mbah a Moute -- someone I thought would be a great target weeks ago.

If Thibs signs Luc, I'll take his grade down from B- to C- for the summer. We don't need a 32%, low volume 3-point shooting PF. Thibs has impulse control problems. You can see it watching his non-stop carping from the bench. Now we're seeing it in his obsession with filling the roster with veteran defensive tough guys in a three-point shooting offensive-oriented League. I like Luc. But we have a couple roster spots left after signing Crawford. Neither one should be used on Luc.

Luc on a vet min. Would be a homerun, and 100000x better than the Crawford or Taj signing. We need sharpshooters or defenders to surround our core. Most of the shooters are gone. I'll take a versatile defender in a heartbeat.

lipoli390 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:My premature grade is an "A". For what this team needed to get out of its youthful funk, I think he hit home runs with Butler, Teague and Gibson. I understand the questions surrounding Crawford, however, we have not trotted out a bench with a legit vet player for years. Crawford gives the bench credibility.

My "A" also assumes that the great work done so far will help attract some very nice FAs on vet minimum contracts. Doogie just tweeted we have made contact with Luc Mbah a Moute -- someone I thought would be a great target weeks ago.

If Thibs signs Luc, I'll take his grade down from B- to C- for the summer. We don't need a 32%, low volume 3-point shooting PF. Thibs has impulse control problems. You can see it watching his non-stop carping from the bench. Now we're seeing it in his obsession with filling the roster with veteran defensive tough guys in a three-point shooting offensive-oriented League. I like Luc. But we have a couple roster spots left after signing Crawford. Neither one should be used on Luc.

Your view of this offseason is honestly hard to keep track of.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:My premature grade is an "A". For what this team needed to get out of its youthful funk, I think he hit home runs with Butler, Teague and Gibson. I understand the questions surrounding Crawford, however, we have not trotted out a bench with a legit vet player for years. Crawford gives the bench credibility.

My "A" also assumes that the great work done so far will help attract some very nice FAs on vet minimum contracts. Doogie just tweeted we have made contact with Luc Mbah a Moute -- someone I thought would be a great target weeks ago.

If Thibs signs Luc, I'll take his grade down from B- to C- for the summer. We don't need a 32%, low volume 3-point shooting PF. Thibs has impulse control problems. You can see it watching his non-stop carping from the bench. Now we're seeing it in his obsession with filling the roster with veteran defensive tough guys in a three-point shooting offensive-oriented League. I like Luc. But we have a couple roster spots left after signing Crawford. Neither one should be used on Luc.

Your view of this offseason is honestly hard to keep track of.

But is consistent with his team/player perspective on a game-to-game basis during the regular season! ;-)

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:My premature grade is an "A". For what this team needed to get out of its youthful funk, I think he hit home runs with Butler, Teague and Gibson. I understand the questions surrounding Crawford, however, we have not trotted out a bench with a legit vet player for years. Crawford gives the bench credibility.

My "A" also assumes that the great work done so far will help attract some very nice FAs on vet minimum contracts. Doogie just tweeted we have made contact with Luc Mbah a Moute -- someone I thought would be a great target weeks ago.

If Thibs signs Luc, I'll take his grade down from B- to C- for the summer. We don't need a 32%, low volume 3-point shooting PF. Thibs has impulse control problems. You can see it watching his non-stop carping from the bench. Now we're seeing it in his obsession with filling the roster with veteran defensive tough guys in a three-point shooting offensive-oriented League. I like Luc. But we have a couple roster spots left after signing Crawford. Neither one should be used on Luc.

Your view of this offseason is honestly hard to keep track of.

Ya, I like your takes lip but a whole letter grade based on a vet min player.

Added a top 15 player and 2 of the best signings in the wolves history and Thibs gets a letter downgrade based on LRAM

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I can't grade him til next year because all these moves will look awful if the results aren't good enough.

The point of this thread seems to be to broach future expectations...

Sure, well that might be easy for you, but for the rest of us.....

I believe the resounding narrative is a combination of 50+ wins, a top 4 seed, and "competitive basketball". Sounds like an overwhelming body extrapolating reality to me..

Of course, I do extrapolate the opposite. I hope to be coloring outside of the lines.