Looking forward to the 2018 season.

[TheFuture]

Yeah, good points LST. It is worth noting that Teague has a player option that third year. Though I consider it likely that he picks it up when Looking at the money drying up, how saturated the pg market is, and Teague being 30 at that time.

We may have been better off with Rubio/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/KAT/Belly/Tyus/Aldrich/Patton and near 20 mil in cap space for say 2Pat/CJ Miles/LRMAM + RE and Vet mins

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, if I'm missing the point of your thread, let me know...it wouldn't be the first time my comprehension skills came up short :).

I think you're saying "Why are we being critical of Thibs' moves just because they might hurt us down the road? After a decade and a half of losing basketball, can't we just enjoy the ride now that things are looking up?" Fair point, but I would counter with this: Why can't we have both...both winning now and building for the future? That's what the franchises we admire do.

The Butler deal already made us a very good team...I don't think anyone disputes that. Heck, Vegas has us as the 4th shortest odds in the West to win the NBA championship! But it's Thibs' subsequent moves that many of us question, as they seem to neither help us "win now" nor "build for the future".

The Rubio/Teague deal gives Teague a third year, which will force thibs to make some tough Harden-like decisions in 2019-20 while not adding much (if anything) to our ability to win now. Bad deal, and Thibs should be criticized for that.

And while I like the shortness of the Gibson deal, it looks like it may have hurt Thibs' ability to make some deals that could have helped us much more this year. Again, bad deal.

While I am on board with the title of your thread and am also looking forward to the 2018 season, I find everything Thibs has done since the A+ Butler move to be worthy of criticism.

While I would never be accused of trying to mute criticisms toward the Wolves...

I do find the recent onslaught a bit amusing. The team hasn't made the playoffs in 13 seasons... that's the 2nd longest drought in NBA history.

The team hasn't reached .500 in 12 seasons. I believe that's tied with the LA Clippers (2x) and Golden State Warriors for longest streaks in NBA history.

The team is coming off a very disappointing 51-loss campaign. A bunch of other Western Conference teams are making bold moves to improve this offseason. Yet, the Wolves are considered a probable playoff team.

Was it all because of one really good move and a few questionable ones? Maybe.

But the team is still poised to break two of the most embarrassing NBA streaks this season. I'm going to try to enjoy it.

As for wanting the future, too... we've read for years here how if KAT and Wiggins are left alone, the Wolves are set. Well, they've been left alone. They're still here. And the Wolves are very probable to keep both here for that first extension. Now, granted, a too-fast, too-soon approach could leave the cupboards bare in a couple of years.... meh.

1. I want to see winning basketball. Finally. I'm sick of rooting for the worst franchise in NBA history.
2. The NBA is changing... quickly. The days of building internally and watching teams grow together for 10+ years are largely over... or about to. That's the new NBA business model... as well as, seemingly, the new way of thinking among a growing group of NBA players.

I've learned not to look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth. There are no sure things. And that's especially true when following a franchise that's trotted out the "The Promise of Hope" for most of its existence... annually.



[Note: To be fair, board activity inherently brings about discussion and criticisms. And that's what makes this place cool. All cool with me. I just created this thread as a reminder for us to enjoy just how much better off the team is TODAY than it was last season. Or the previous season. Or, the 10+ years before that....]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, I'm with LST. This offseason has been a bit of a split personality, starting with the Butler move (an A+), followed by a couple of real questionable moves, especially the Taj deal.

What is sobering to me is that with the exception of may be Dallas and New Orleans, none of the other Western Conference teams are standing still. They are all making moves to get better and guys like George and Milsap have come over to give our conference rivals huge boosts.

Butler probably adds about 8 wins by himself. Let's say Teague minus Rubio is a wash. Taj is barely over replacement level in my opinion, so may be he gets us an extra win or two (?). That puts us at about 40 to 42 wins compared to last season, all else being equal. In most years, that isn't enough to make the playoffs in the West.

So yes, we will definitely be a solid, competitive team. Color me skeptical as to whether we will easily finish with more than, say, 42 or 43 wins. I think that starts becoming a real stretch when you look at the conference we play in.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, I'm with LST. This offseason has been a bit of a split personality, starting with the Butler move (an A+), followed by a couple of real questionable moves, especially the Taj deal.

What is sobering to me is that with the exception of may be Dallas and New Orleans, none of the other Western Conference teams are standing still. They are all making moves to get better and guys like George and Milsap have come over to give our conference rivals huge boosts.

Butler probably adds about 8 wins by himself. Let's say Teague minus Rubio is a wash. Taj is barely over replacement level in my opinion, so may be he gets us an extra win or two (?). That puts us at about 40 to 42 wins compared to last season, all else being equal. In most years, that isn't enough to make the playoffs in the West.

So yes, we will definitely be a solid, competitive team. Color me skeptical as to whether we will easily finish with more than, say, 42 or 43 wins. I think that starts becoming a real stretch when you look at the conference we play in.

I'm on record that none of the moves puts the Wolves in as a definitive playoff team. It's going to be a helluva battle in the West. But at least the Wolves will (should) be involved. And at least they're trying to win games.

I'm ready for games that matter.

[KiwiMatt]

You guys can take the Bus. I'm taking the Boeing Dreamliner from Christchurch, NZ to Minneapolis, USA for game 7 of the NBA Finals.

(Puts down crack pipe). More chance the Wolves making the NBA finals than me being able to afford that flight with current mortgage repayments!


Anyways I agree with LST, loved the Butler acquisition but not as high on the Rubio for Teague swap. Although to put a positive spin on things it will be nice to get some scoring at the PG position. And comparing to what Jrue Holiday got payed, Teagues contract doesn't look that bad! Don't mind the Taj signing as effectively he's absorbing Pek's cap space and at least we know he will contribute.

Off-season not over yet boys!

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I lean toward Abe on this one. There's plenty to nitpick and second guess about the Teague deal and the Gibson signing (and there are few guys whose nitpicking I appreciate more than Q, LST, Lip, and some of the other guys here), but I think this team will be a LOT better than last year, even in the loaded Western Conference.

Side note: we only won 31 games last year (a year in which a lot of us, particularly those who value young assets, were predicting more than 42 or 43 wins). Now that we've gone for the vets (while keeping Wiggins and Towns), it seems like it's those who tend to value veterans and who predicted a low win total last year who are optimistic. I suspect there's some bias going on for all of us. Like youth? You probably were optimistic last year and are playing down expectations this year. Like vets? You were probably pessimistic last year, but are more bullish this year.

I definitely lean toward the latter group. We lost SO many games down the stretch last year. Why? I think it's that we just couldn't ever get stops when we needed them, and we always screwed it up in crunch time. I think the additions of Teague and Gibson will give us a steady presence on both ends that could make a bigger difference than their individual talent suggests. Teague can keep the floor stretched more than Rubio and put pressure directly on the ball defensively in a way Rubio couldn't, and Taj is a super-efficient offensive player who makes few mistakes on both ends. Those guys are not going to give away games as frequently as we did last year. And the big difference is Butler. We lacked a closer last year, pure and simple. Every team needs a guy they can count on down the stretch to just get fucking buckets offensively, and make defensive plays happen. Rubio can't do it because he can't shoot. Towns is the workhorse that carried us through games, but he doesn't have the ball handling skills to really initiate the offense. Thibs tried to push Wiggins to be that guy last year, but I just don't think Wiggins' handles are good enough and frankly, I don't think he has the vision or IQ to make the right plays. By contrast, Butler is the consummate closer. Wiggins and Towns can still carry a good deal of the load throughout games (and I'm really hoping for some defensive improvement from them as well), but come crunch time, we now have a guy we can trust. In combination with the stability that Teague and Gibson should bring plus whatever improvement Wiggins and Towns show, I think Butler's role as a closer will push us to nearly 50 wins and competing for the 4th seed, right there with the Clippers and Thunder, below the Warriors, Spurs, and probably the Rockets, and above the Nuggets and Jazz who I suspect will land the 7th and 8th seeds in the West. That's a huge jump, a nearly 20 win improvement. And I'm excited as hell about it.

[Lipoli390]

Abe, if I'm missing the point of your thread, let me know...it wouldn't be the first time my comprehension skills came up short :).

I think you're saying "Why are we being critical of Thibs' moves just because they might hurt us down the road? After a decade and a half of losing basketball, can't we just enjoy the ride now that things are looking up?" Fair point, but I would counter with this: Why can't we have both...both winning now and building for the future? That's what the franchises we admire do.

The Butler deal already made us a very good team...I don't think anyone disputes that. Heck, Vegas has us as the 4th shortest odds in the West to win the NBA championship! But it's Thibs' subsequent moves that many of us question, as they seem to neither help us "win now" nor "build for the future".

The Rubio/Teague deal gives Teague a third year, which will force thibs to make some tough Harden-like decisions in 2019-20 while not adding much (if anything) to our ability to win now. Bad deal, and Thibs should be criticized for that.

And while I like the shortness of the Gibson deal, it looks like it may have hurt Thibs' ability to make some deals that could have helped us much more this year. Again, bad deal.

While I am on board with the title of your thread and am also looking forward to the 2018 season, I find everything Thibs has done since the A+ Butler move to be worthy of criticism.

While I would never be accused of trying to mute criticisms toward the Wolves...

I do find the recent onslaught a bit amusing. The team hasn't made the playoffs in 13 seasons... that's the 2nd longest drought in NBA history.

The team hasn't reached .500 in 12 seasons. I believe that's tied with the LA Clippers (2x) and Golden State Warriors for longest streaks in NBA history.

The team is coming off a very disappointing 51-loss campaign. A bunch of other Western Conference teams are making bold moves to improve this offseason. Yet, the Wolves are considered a probable playoff team.

Was it all because of one really good move and a few questionable ones? Maybe.

But the team is still poised to break two of the most embarrassing NBA streaks this season. I'm going to try to enjoy it.

As for wanting the future, too... we've read for years here how if KAT and Wiggins are left alone, the Wolves are set. Well, they've been left alone. They're still here. And the Wolves are very probable to keep both here for that first extension. Now, granted, a too-fast, too-soon approach could leave the cupboards bare in a couple of years.... meh.

1. I want to see winning basketball. Finally. I'm sick of rooting for the worst franchise in NBA history.
2. The NBA is changing... quickly. The days of building internally and watching teams grow together for 10+ years are largely over... or about to. That's the new NBA business model... as well as, seemingly, the new way of thinking among a growing group of NBA players.

I've learned not to look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth. There are no sure things. And that's especially true when following a franchise that's trotted out the "The Promise of Hope" for most of its existence... annually.



[Note: To be fair, board activity inherently brings about discussion and criticisms. And that's what makes this place cool. All cool with me. I just created this thread as a reminder for us to enjoy just how much better off the team is TODAY than it was last season. Or the previous season. Or, the 10+ years before that....]

I love the thread and the discussion. But I'm with LST on this.

The Butler deal was a good one and instantly put this team into playoff contention. There's an argument that the maturation of our youth combined with a full year under Thibs and the addition of FA talent using the full $25 million in cap space we had would have gotten us into contention. But the Butler deal was the sure bet to get us there.

Nevertheless, as LST pointed out, Thibs' subsequent moves are at least highly questionable.

RUBIO/TEAGUE:

I'm not too put off by the combined Rubio/Teague transaction because I see the value in having a PG who we pose an offensive threat and in having a 1st round pick next year. But I am troubled by the step back defensively and on the boards in swapping Rubio for Teague and at age 26 going on 27, Ricky is just entering his prime. I'm also troubled by Teague's contract, which gives him an option on a 3rd year, thereby undermining what otherwise appears to be a 2-year strategy to "go for it" over the next 2 years while maintaining flexibility to quickly retool around KAT and Wiggins immediately thereafter. The Teague deal gets even worse from my perspective if we use the OKC pick for the likes of a CJ Miles.

TAJ GIBSON

As I've mentioned in other posts, the Taj contract is the one that really gets me. It strikes me as a big mistake. Coaches like to say, "it's the little things." Thibs would be the first to say that in his role as head coach. He got the "big thing" right with the Butler deal. But I think he's missed on some little things and it's those little things that often make the difference between good and great, between lottery and playoffs or between 8th seed and 5th seed. The Taj signing is one of those little but important things in my view. It's important now, however, that Thibs not compound that mistake with another by trading the OKC pick to get CJ Miles or someone comparable who we could have signed as a FA if we had held off on giving $14 million per year to Taj Gibson.

[Monster]

I'm so thrilled Abe is finally getting to enjoy the ride. It truly is a new era.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm so thrilled Abe is finally getting to enjoy the ride. It truly is a new era.

Looks like Abe made it to a certain track.

"Dancing days are here again......"

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wait. How did this turn into a LST vs. Abe thread?

I've never endorsed the Rubio or Gibson deals. In fact, I'm not a "fan" of either of them, to various degrees. But they're actually mostly irrelevant to my intended point with this thread.

My point is that whether they're good deals or not... I'm not quibbling with them right now. There'll be plenty of time for hand-wringing. I'm just happy that the team looks to be improved and in a position to make a push for the playoffs. And I'm putting aside nearly 3 decades of angst to enjoy the ride... at least for a few fleeting moments.