AbeVigodaLive wrote:1. Welcome to the new NBA. Shorter contracts. Free agency drama openly encouraged. The days of teams growing up together are certainly not going to be the norm. As of now, fans seem to be eating it up. Personally... I don't dig it as much. Like Q... I get more emotionally invested in players and personalities I've learned to love/hate than gladiators here for the short-timer payday.
2. Anybody else notice that the Jazz are seemingly "all-in" on Rubio? They had him fly to San Diego to meet with Hayward in one last-ditch effort. I'm going to miss that guy... and even if he wasn't as good of a fit (possibly)... we have 6 years of history with the guy. And that emotional baggage means something to fans. Too bad the guy doesn't get to experience winning here. I'd prefer to root for him than Teague... regardless of basketball stuff taking place.
I'm with you, Abe, in not digging the more mercenary NBA and in missing Ricky. Like you, I'd much rather root for Ricky than Teague and I still think keeping Ricky would have been the better move. Ricky apparently didn't fit Thibs system. Interesting that Utah's coach, Snyder, is comfortable going from a shooting PG in Hill to a pure pass PG in Rubio. The hallmark of a good head coach -- adaptability. Obviously I want Thibs to succeed because the succes of my team is tied to his own success as head coach and PBO. But my doubts about him as a head coach continue to linger. And his limitations as a head coach spill over into what he does as PBO. There's something to be said for checks and balances in any organization. Giving Thibs both the HC and PBO roles leaves the Wolves organization without adequate checks and balances in my view.
It could be that Utah's roster makes a ton of sense with Rubio. They have shooters to surround him and while Gobert isn't a shooter he maybe the best player in the league screening rolling to the basket etc in and Rubio is gonna get him all kinds of easy buckets. Hell Gobert might make Rubio better because how effective he is in those areas he wil put so much pressure on teams. Furthermore Utah plays a slower deliberate pace and that actually benefits Rubio in a lot of ways because he handles the ball a lot and does his thing.
People get really hung up on Rubio being younger than Teague. He is like 2 years 4 months younger. That's not a huge difference and even if the arguement which is valid that Rubio is sort of a youngish guy in his development because of his injuries...you have to give Credit to the fact Teague has stayed healthy and has played on playoff teams. Personally I think people are gonna realize quickly Teague is a pretty good player and see why Thibs and Layden made this move plus they have the first round pick to said adding the team in one way or another.
As for the way the league is...honestly it's both exciting to follow and sickening. Its increasingly more about money, cap space, random player relationships etc. Honestly yesterday I was seriously considering moving on from following professional sports so closely. All this money and who knows whether the guy on your team will be here in 2 years or whatever. To some extent I don't have a problem with player movement both teams and players having the ability to move on and do things that may benefit them but with teams doing much of their jockeying just to do cap related moves...it gets old. I can't even enjoy the idea of Tyus on this team (my favorite player on the team) because in a couple years (if he is even worthwhile as a player) The concern is whether he will be afforadable within the cap restraints etc. Sigh oh well.
WildWolf2813 wrote:The disappointment is that we're going for broke just to make the playoffs when it seems like this team passed up opportunities to do this in order to "build it right." In a way it feels like Thibs threw in the towel in terms of winning a title and has lowered the bar to just being a playoff team and knows we'll take it because we've been out of the postseason for so long. However, we wasted 13 years for this?
I have the same feeling, Wild. This just doesn't feel like an organization building a championship team. What Thibs is doing has an air of desperation or at least impatience to it. But who knows. Maybe this all comes together in the next two years and the Wolves become a top 3 team in the West - two sprained ankles (Curry & Durant) from the Western Conference title. :)
Besides butler trade how did they "ruin the future". Every strategy has pros and cons. Look at the jazz built a team with young players in Gobert, Hayward, Favors and now if they lose Hayward all that patience turned into a 1 year playoffs and a sweep in the playoffs.
We still have 2 former 1# overall picks who are on their rookie contracts. Just like before the offseason we are going no where until those guys become top tier players.
We added a young player in Patton (sucks he broke his foot). But point still stands we need to still draft good to continue to have success now and into the future.
As far as I can tell the new NBA has been pretty sweet to us. We got some legit vets on short contract to go around our young stars. I feel some loss in the players we met, but I remember being equally reticent about Cassel coming in for Brandon. I would have done that 100 times out of 100 even though it lasted 1 year. This is as good as the offseason has ever been to us. We should enjoy it.
thedoper wrote:As far as I can tell the new NBA has been pretty sweet to us. We got some legit vets on short contract to go around our young stars. I feel some loss in the players we met, but I remember being equally reticent about Cassel coming in for Brandon. I would have done that 100 times out of 100 even though it lasted 1 year. This is as good as the offseason has ever been to us. We should enjoy it.
Don't remind me of Brandon. :) He's the reason we let Billups go. Flip wouldn't commit to starting Billups over Brandon and that's what led Chauncey to leave. If I recall, Brandon was unable to play due to injury when we brought in Cassell.
I have to admit the Wolves have had a solid offseason so far. But it's not nearly as exciting to me as the year we drafted Zach and acquired Wiggins in the Love deal. Getting the #1 pick and using it to draft Towns was pretty exciting. Those two offseasons build our foundation. We still have 2/3 of that foundation and have added an allstar in his prime named Jimmy Butler. So yes, it's been a good offseason. Yet, I have a hard time getting excited by it. Maybe it's losing players like Zach and Ricky who I liked. Maybe it's my sense that our Towns/Wiggins foundation isn't as good as I hoped it might be - due primarily to my doubts about Wiggins. Or maybe it's the lack of depth on this team and the knowledge that Butler has had a propensity to miss quite a few games each season over the course of his career. We'll see.
WildWolf2813 wrote:The disappointment is that we're going for broke just to make the playoffs when it seems like this team passed up opportunities to do this in order to "build it right." In a way it feels like Thibs threw in the towel in terms of winning a title and has lowered the bar to just being a playoff team and knows we'll take it because we've been out of the postseason for so long. However, we wasted 13 years for this?
I could be mistaken but didn't you like the butler deal.
Any other move made didn't affect the future. Even though I like ricky we still added a 1st in the trade what is a future move and I don't love the Taj deal but it was a 2 year deal meaning in 2019-2020 the wolves could in theory have cap space again with towns (RFA), Butler, Belly, Tyus (RFA), Aldrich (Early Termination) and teague (player option) all could come off the books and we would have bird rights (not sure on the cap holds)
The Butler deal wasn't my issue. Dealing Ricky was, and let's not pretend this first rounder is gold when Thibs hasn't proven himself to be trustworthy with young players yet. We don't even know how he's gonna piecemeal this bench together. Thibs has set himself up to where he's one injury away to any of our positions except PF to screwing everything up.
I don't have an issue with the "must make playoffs" mentality they have now. I've always felt this team's ceiling was never gonna be high. I just think back to past years where we coulda cobbled together an 8th seed but decided not to because we had some long term vision. Well, that long term vision is gone. The idea of cap space being this grand asset is gone.
WildWolf2813 wrote:The disappointment is that we're going for broke just to make the playoffs when it seems like this team passed up opportunities to do this in order to "build it right." In a way it feels like Thibs threw in the towel in terms of winning a title and has lowered the bar to just being a playoff team and knows we'll take it because we've been out of the postseason for so long. However, we wasted 13 years for this?
I have the same feeling, Wild. This just doesn't feel like an organization building a championship team. What Thibs is doing has an air of desperation or at least impatience to it. But who knows. Maybe this all comes together in the next two years and the Wolves become a top 3 team in the West - two sprained ankles (Curry & Durant) from the Western Conference title. :)
Besides butler trade how did they "ruin the future". Every strategy has pros and cons. Look at the jazz built a team with young players in Gobert, Hayward, Favors and now if they lose Hayward all that patience turned into a 1 year playoffs and a sweep in the playoffs.
We still have 2 former 1# overall picks who are on their rookie contracts. Just like before the offseason we are going no where until those guys become top tier players.
We added a young player in Patton (sucks he broke his foot). But point still stands we need to still draft good to continue to have success now and into the future.
kekgeek1 wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
WildWolf2813 wrote:The disappointment is that we're going for broke just to make the playoffs when it seems like this team passed up opportunities to do this in order to "build it right." In a way it feels like Thibs threw in the towel in terms of winning a title and has lowered the bar to just being a playoff team and knows we'll take it because we've been out of the postseason for so long. However, we wasted 13 years for this?
I have the same feeling, Wild. This just doesn't feel like an organization building a championship team. What Thibs is doing has an air of desperation or at least impatience to it. But who knows. Maybe this all comes together in the next two years and the Wolves become a top 3 team in the West - two sprained ankles (Curry & Durant) from the Western Conference title. :)
Besides butler trade how did they "ruin the future". Every strategy has pros and cons. Look at the jazz built a team with young players in Gobert, Hayward, Favors and now if they lose Hayward all that patience turned into a 1 year playoffs and a sweep in the playoffs.
We still have 2 former 1# overall picks who are on their rookie contracts. Just like before the offseason we are going no where until those guys become top tier players.
We added a young player in Patton (sucks he broke his foot). But point still stands we need to still draft good to continue to have success now and into the future.
kekgeek1- last year's Jazz season would have been the 2nd best season in franchise history for us.
And you're right. We might not go anywhere until Wiggins and Towns take that leap. Me personally, I'm not sure Wiggins makes that leap. I really didn't like what I saw from him a year ago.
thedoper wrote:As far as I can tell the new NBA has been pretty sweet to us. We got some legit vets on short contract to go around our young stars. I feel some loss in the players we met, but I remember being equally reticent about Cassel coming in for Brandon. I would have done that 100 times out of 100 even though it lasted 1 year. This is as good as the offseason has ever been to us. We should enjoy it.
Don't remind me of Brandon. :) He's the reason we let Billups go. Flip wouldn't commit to starting Billups over Brandon and that's what led Chauncey to leave. If I recall, Brandon was unable to play due to injury when we brought in Cassell.
I have to admit the Wolves have had a solid offseason so far. But it's not nearly as exciting to me as the year we drafted Zach and acquired Wiggins in the Love deal. Getting the #1 pick and using it to draft Towns was pretty exciting. Those two offseasons build our foundation. We still have 2/3 of that foundation and have added an allstar in his prime named Jimmy Butler. So yes, it's been a good offseason. Yet, I have a hard time getting excited by it. Maybe it's losing players like Zach and Ricky who I liked. Maybe it's my sense that our Towns/Wiggins foundation isn't as good as I hoped it might be - due primarily to my doubts about Wiggins. Or maybe it's the lack of depth on this team and the knowledge that Butler has had a propensity to miss quite a few games each season over the course of his career. We'll see.
I'm going senile. We got Casell for Ervin Johnson, Peeler, and Joe Smith. Haha!! I remember a vague moment of doubt in my mind at that time about how good Cassell was at the time. I have no idea why in retrospect. We fleeced them.
WildWolf2813 wrote:The disappointment is that we're going for broke just to make the playoffs when it seems like this team passed up opportunities to do this in order to "build it right." In a way it feels like Thibs threw in the towel in terms of winning a title and has lowered the bar to just being a playoff team and knows we'll take it because we've been out of the postseason for so long. However, we wasted 13 years for this?
I could be mistaken but didn't you like the butler deal.
Any other move made didn't affect the future. Even though I like ricky we still added a 1st in the trade what is a future move and I don't love the Taj deal but it was a 2 year deal meaning in 2019-2020 the wolves could in theory have cap space again with towns (RFA), Butler, Belly, Tyus (RFA), Aldrich (Early Termination) and teague (player option) all could come off the books and we would have bird rights (not sure on the cap holds)
The Butler deal wasn't my issue. Dealing Ricky was, and let's not pretend this first rounder is gold when Thibs hasn't proven himself to be trustworthy with young players yet. We don't even know how he's gonna piecemeal this bench together. Thibs has set himself up to where he's one injury away to any of our positions except PF to screwing everything up.
I don't have an issue with the "must make playoffs" mentality they have now. I've always felt this team's ceiling was never gonna be high. I just think back to past years where we coulda cobbled together an 8th seed but decided not to because we had some long term vision. Well, that long term vision is gone. The idea of cap space being this grand asset is gone.
I just don't get how the long view is gone. We added a point guard that is in a similar tier as ricky (I like ricky more also) and added a 1st (I agree it is not the best pick ever but it is an asset that we didn't have and has the potential to be a gold mind if it is hit and it is a cheap player that has at least some chance of being a solid player).
What difference was 4 million between ricky and teague going to make in free agency, is one solid vet with that extra 4 mil going to be the difference between a championship and just the playoffs I don't think so.
I just don't think the moves we made capped our future. We had no cap space anyways next year. Wolves are now in a different stage in building a team need to hit with the MLE signings in the next couple of years and hit on late draft picks.
Championship potential still lies with wiggins and towns hitting their potential and nothing we did this offseason changed that. If Towns and Wiggins hit their potential (what may or may not happen) we will contend, if they don't we are a middling playoff team
