Minnesota Sports Forum

Yeah, I agree with the take that the Prince signing is bad news for Rudez, and better news for Bennett because of the need for sufficient bigs on the roster. I also agree that it's going to be difficult for Flip to find enough minutes for all the guys he wants to develop, and some guys are naturally going to be on the short end of the stick. October is going to be a critical month for guys like Payne, Bennett and Bjelica to see who gets the most back up minutes at PF. Although he has been a disappointment in his two years in the league, I still think that AB has the most potential, and I hope he has a terrific camp and establishes himself as the PF option behind KG. Bjelica is the most polished player of the three, though, and the more likely scenario is that he gets more minutes than Payne and Bennett. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

60WinTim wrote:I don't know, Drew. The Prince signing would seem to help secure Bennett on the roster since we did not add a PF/C type player. Assuming LoBrown is waived during training camp, that would leave us with 15 players. Teams frequently only carry 14 players, but with the Wolves having a number of "fragile" players, I will not be surprised to see them carry 15 players into the regular season.

I do like Flip's recent tweet:

Flip Saunders ?@Flip_Saunders 2h2 hours ago
kG. Andre and Tay not only experience but Kg and Tay All League Defense. Defensive Culture for Pups to see.

I really don't see this experiment of mixing a bunch of young guys with "extreme" vets as doing much for us this season. Miller and Prince are well past their primes and KG, while still solid defensively, is limited in games and minutes. Flip is betting that somehow their collective wisdom will rub off on the youngsters. But how well wisdom is absorbed and then turned into actual results is a question none of us can really answer.

My take is that whatever wisdom/mentoring/role-modeling that is thrown off from the old guys will pay dividends, if any, more in Year 2, 3, and 4 (well after their gone) than Year 1. This team is most likely going to be in the bottom 5 defensively again.

I'll say this much, this has to be the deepest 16 win team in the history of the league. Look at the roster, we don't know how much top end talent we have yet but the depth at every position is remarkable.

For those who want to malign Flip's bringing in "over-the-hill" vets like KG, Miller and Prince, here are their WS/48 for last season:

KG: .096
Prince: .086
Miller: .084

Only Muhammad and Dieng had better numbers on the Wolves roster. Wiggins was only .034 and Rubio was .033.

Veterans know what they need to do to win, and it can only help our young talent to have these three guys around to teach them.

Q12543 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I don't know, Drew. The Prince signing would seem to help secure Bennett on the roster since we did not add a PF/C type player. Assuming LoBrown is waived during training camp, that would leave us with 15 players. Teams frequently only carry 14 players, but with the Wolves having a number of "fragile" players, I will not be surprised to see them carry 15 players into the regular season.

I do like Flip's recent tweet:

Flip Saunders ?@Flip_Saunders 2h2 hours ago
kG. Andre and Tay not only experience but Kg and Tay All League Defense. Defensive Culture for Pups to see.

I really don't see this experiment of mixing a bunch of young guys with "extreme" vets as doing much for us this season. Miller and Prince are well past their primes and KG, while still solid defensively, is limited in games and minutes. Flip is betting that somehow their collective wisdom will rub off on the youngsters. But how well wisdom is absorbed and then turned into actual results is a question none of us can really answer.

My take is that whatever wisdom/mentoring/role-modeling that is thrown off from the old guys will pay dividends, if any, more in Year 2, 3, and 4 (well after their gone) than Year 1. This team is most likely going to be in the bottom 5 defensively again.

I bet Q that Flip would agree with you that the effects will be felt later on. I think some on court play from these old guys will helpbthevte though. I think all of them have some game left in the tank.

Defensively? I want to believe but I am waiting on that one. :)

longstrangetrip wrote:For those who want to malign Flip's bringing in "over-the-hill" vets like KG, Miller and Prince, here are their WS/48 for last season:

KG: .096
Prince: .086
Miller: .084

Only Muhammad and Dieng had better numbers on the Wolves roster. Wiggins was only .034 and Rubio was .033.

Veterans know what they need to do to win, and it can only help our young talent to have these three guys around to teach them.

Good points LST. Prince used to play legit minutes for a contender the last couple years and now he is a bench guy for a young team hoping to make some noise and win some games. I think Prince still has some game left in the tank. Search for some highlights from last year and He still had some moments lincluding a few dunks and he had a block on Lebron in transition which has to be impressive. I am not suggesting Prince is going to be amazing but I do think in a reduced role he could be pretty effective.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2014/11/19/20141119-dotn.nba/

I heard an NBA analyst on the radio a couple days ago wondering allowed why the Spurs didn't sign Prince or why the Griz didn't keep him. Well, the answer is this. The Spurs organization is extremely smart about knowing who can help win games. And the Griz organization is pretty smart about that too. And no organization knows the current version of Prince better that the Grizz. No doubt Flip has fond memories of Prince in his prime back in Detroit, but obviously Tay is a shadow of his former self and the Spurs and Griz organizations know it.

Signing Prince wasn't a terrible move. But I would have preferred to see Rudez in that roster slot. He's a shooter who's young enough to possibly grow with the young core and help this team as a player after this next season. I'll say one thing. The Wolves will definitely be the favorite to win the coveted mentorship award this season. Seriously, how many mentors do these young guys need? Before signing Prince, we had Martin, Miller and KG as 10-year plus highly experienced vets along with younger experienced vets in Ricky and Pek. How many mentors did Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka have as the Thunder developed into a top Western Conference team? How about Stockton and Malone? Jordan and Pippen?

Again, signing Prince wasn't a terrible move. He might add some value both on the court and in the locker room. Miller's presence might add a few wins to this season's record by stabilizing our second unit backcourt. KG will definitely add wins with both his play and leadership. Of all these signings, kG is by far the best. His incredible passion, legendary local stature and future hall of fame credentials will definitely generate excitement and likely inspire some or all of our young guys. As a career PF/C, KG is particularly well-suited to teach our top pick Towns. But I would have stopped at KG or at least stopped at KG and Miller in my pursuit of mentors.

Lip - I am with you. I don't think Prince can play at all anymore. I hope he can still at least practice hard.

longstrangetrip wrote:For those who want to malign Flip's bringing in "over-the-hill" vets like KG, Miller and Prince, here are their WS/48 for last season:

KG: .096
Prince: .086
Miller: .084

Only Muhammad and Dieng had better numbers on the Wolves roster. Wiggins was only .034 and Rubio was .033.

Veterans know what they need to do to win, and it can only help our young talent to have these three guys around to teach them.

LST, two things....First, WS/48 contains a team defensive component that gets allocated out to individual players. So if you play on a really poor defensive team, you might be disproportionately hurt by the WS/48 metric. On the other hand, if you play for a really good defensive team, your WS/48 benefits.

The second thing is that .100 is considered about league average, which none of them achieved. None of these guys are very efficient scorers anymore and KG is the only one that can still defend at a high level. And now they are all a year older. I just don't see them moving the needle much in terms of projected wins/losses for this upcoming season.

lipoli390 wrote:I heard an NBA analyst on the radio a couple days ago wondering allowed why the Spurs didn't sign Prince or why the Griz didn't keep him. Well, the answer is this. The Spurs organization is extremely smart about knowing who can help win games. And the Griz organization is pretty smart about that too. And no organization knows the current version of Prince better that the Grizz. No doubt Flip has fond memories of Prince in his prime back in Detroit, but obviously Tay is a shadow of his former self and the Spurs and Griz organizations know it.

Signing Prince wasn't a terrible move. But I would have preferred to see Rudez in that roster slot. He's a shooter who's young enough to possibly grow with the young core and help this team as a player after this next season. I'll say one thing. The Wolves will definitely be the favorite to win the coveted mentorship award this season. Seriously, how many mentors do these young guys need? Before signing Prince, we had Martin, Miller and KG as 10-year plus highly experienced vets along with younger experienced vets in Ricky and Pek. How many mentors did Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka have as the Thunder developed into a top Western Conference team? How about Stockton and Malone? Jordan and Pippen?

Again, signing Prince wasn't a terrible move. He might add some value both on the court and in the locker room. Miller's presence might add a few wins to this season's record by stabilizing our second unit backcourt. KG will definitely add wins with both his play and leadership. Of all these signings, kG is by far the best. His incredible passion, legendary local stature and future hall of fame credentials will definitely generate excitement and likely inspire some or all of our young guys. As a career PF/C, KG is particularly well-suited to teach our top pick Towns. But I would have stopped at KG or at least stopped at KG and Miller in my pursuit of mentors.

Yeah, reasonable take Lip. I would also add....What former stars mentored Curry, Thompson, Green, and Barnes? Those guys were all drafted pretty close to each other (year-wise) and they somehow managed to win a title together. And the vets they did add - Lee earlier on, then Iguodala and Bogut eventually- were added because they were actually really good players.