Minnesota Sports Forum

Very well said, lipoli...Ricky is far down my radar screen too. Of course I'm interested in the continued development of the Big 3, but I'm probably most interested in whether Belly can play like he did the last half of the season and like he did in Europe, because that guy is capable of taking much of the PF minutes. I'm interested in whether Thibs can get Muhammad to understand defense like Sam and Flip couldn't. And I'm interested in whether the skillset and winning pedigree that Tyus Jones has consistently shown in high school, AAU, and the highest level of college ball, can translate at all to the NBA. It's going to be an interesting year to learn about all these things, but we don't have much at all to learn about Ricky.

It's crazy to me that the primary ball handler for this team is allowed to just peak where he's at (10-15th best PG in the league) without issue and it's on everyone else to get better for us to win. Why is Ricky not accountable for getting better and doing more to help us win? He's not doing everything you could ask of him to help us win. He has some serious holes in his game that hurt us at times. It's not acceptable to me that he gets a free pass on improvement when we need it to happen if we want to win more. It's not just up to the big 3. It's up to everyone including Ricky. If Ricky comes out and puts up 10/9/4 again on sub 40% shooting I'll be disappointed. I just don't think you can be much better than .500 with that guys as your primary ball handler.

Q when I said this is a big season for Rubio I meant more whether or not he can take another step forward to being more than he is already. I think there is a chance for some small but worthwhile gains in shooting percentages both at the rim and from 3 point land because he has a healthy offseason. In addition he being healthy and working on his game in the offseason he may find some other small things to improve that won't show up in the box score especially playing for Thibs and elite HC who has had some good success with Guards in this league. No Rubio is not THE KEY to the season or its his final audition but I think it's basically the year we find out if Rubio is what he is or he can make a stride to be a little more? Does that clarify what I meant? I am assuming you were directing some angst toward me but maybe you weren't. :)

monsterpile wrote:Q when I said this is a big season for Rubio I meant more whether or not he can take another step forward to being more than he is already. I think there is a chance for some small but worthwhile gains in shooting percentages both at the rim and from 3 point land because he has a healthy offseason. In addition he being healthy and working on his game in the offseason he may find some other small things to improve that won't show up in the box score especially playing for Thibs and elite HC who has had some good success with Guards in this league. No Rubio is not THE KEY to the season or its his final audition but I think it's basically the year we find out if Rubio is what he is or he can make a stride to be a little more? Does that clarify what I meant? I am assuming you were directing some angst toward me but maybe you weren't. :)

Yeah, I wasn't saying Rubio is going to be the decider of team success or not either. Merely whether he's so unique because he truly does "make teammates better" as we've seen written about him for 5 years or if "he's fine, but not much better than average" and really not that key in developing a championship level team.

khans2k5 wrote:It's crazy to me that the primary ball handler for this team is allowed to just peak where he's at (10-15th best PG in the league) without issue and it's on everyone else to get better for us to win. Why is Ricky not accountable for getting better and doing more to help us win? He's not doing everything you could ask of him to help us win. He has some serious holes in his game that hurt us at times. It's not acceptable to me that he gets a free pass on improvement when we need it to happen if we want to win more. It's not just up to the big 3. It's up to everyone including Ricky. If Ricky comes out and puts up 10/9/4 again on sub 40% shooting I'll be disappointed. I just don't think you can be much better than .500 with that guys as your primary ball handler.

What do you mean by "allowed", as if anyone within the franchise can just order Rubio to improve or not?

Every player at some point hits their plateau. Rubio is 5 years into his career, so it would be a little foolish to expect a step-level increase in performance next season. That being said, he did have a career year last season, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he actually can keep getting better. And my guess is that he is trying to keep getting better. No one is suggesting he should be fat and happy.

I specifically called out KAT, LaVine, and Wiggins because their age and NBA experience levels suggest more improvement is possible.

Lastly, I'm not sure why a defensive-oriented/pass first PG that doesn't shoot a lot can't lead a team to a .500+ record if he has team mates capable of taking on the scoring load. That makes no sense to me.

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:It's crazy to me that the primary ball handler for this team is allowed to just peak where he's at (10-15th best PG in the league) without issue and it's on everyone else to get better for us to win. Why is Ricky not accountable for getting better and doing more to help us win? He's not doing everything you could ask of him to help us win. He has some serious holes in his game that hurt us at times. It's not acceptable to me that he gets a free pass on improvement when we need it to happen if we want to win more. It's not just up to the big 3. It's up to everyone including Ricky. If Ricky comes out and puts up 10/9/4 again on sub 40% shooting I'll be disappointed. I just don't think you can be much better than .500 with that guys as your primary ball handler.

What do you mean by "allowed", as if anyone within the franchise can just order Rubio to improve or not?

Every player at some point hits their plateau. Rubio is 5 years into his career, so it would be a little foolish to expect a step-level increase in performance next season. That being said, he did have a career year last season, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he actually can keep getting better. And my guess is that he is trying to keep getting better. No one is suggesting he should be fat and happy.

I specifically called out KAT, LaVine, and Wiggins because their age and NBA experience levels suggest more improvement is possible.

Lastly, I'm not sure why a defensive-oriented/pass first PG that doesn't shoot a lot can't lead a team to a .500+ record if he has team mates capable of taking on the scoring load. That makes no sense to me.

"Allowed" was referring to this board just letting him get by scott free for not improving his real weaknesses over the years and the notion he doesn't need to get better. As far as winning with him as the primary ball handler, teams are just gonna cut off his passing lanes and make him beat them when significant games are on the line and he can't beat that consistently right now because of his weaknesses. We haven't seen it much yet because we have yet to play many significant games in recent years. As we go for the playoffs and play in playoff games it will become much more apparent that you can't have a primary ball handler who can't score and if you say we'll just give the ball to Wiggins or Zach to take care of that job then you take away what makes Ricky effective on offense so you might as well put in a guy like Dunn to "do shit" around the guys actually making the plays instead of just sticking Ricky in a corner.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:It's crazy to me that the primary ball handler for this team is allowed to just peak where he's at (10-15th best PG in the league) without issue and it's on everyone else to get better for us to win. Why is Ricky not accountable for getting better and doing more to help us win? He's not doing everything you could ask of him to help us win. He has some serious holes in his game that hurt us at times. It's not acceptable to me that he gets a free pass on improvement when we need it to happen if we want to win more. It's not just up to the big 3. It's up to everyone including Ricky. If Ricky comes out and puts up 10/9/4 again on sub 40% shooting I'll be disappointed. I just don't think you can be much better than .500 with that guys as your primary ball handler.

What do you mean by "allowed", as if anyone within the franchise can just order Rubio to improve or not?

Every player at some point hits their plateau. Rubio is 5 years into his career, so it would be a little foolish to expect a step-level increase in performance next season. That being said, he did have a career year last season, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he actually can keep getting better. And my guess is that he is trying to keep getting better. No one is suggesting he should be fat and happy.

I specifically called out KAT, LaVine, and Wiggins because their age and NBA experience levels suggest more improvement is possible.

Lastly, I'm not sure why a defensive-oriented/pass first PG that doesn't shoot a lot can't lead a team to a .500+ record if he has team mates capable of taking on the scoring load. That makes no sense to me.

"Allowed" was referring to this board just letting him get by scott free for not improving his real weaknesses over the years and the notion he doesn't need to get better. As far as winning with him as the primary ball handler, teams are just gonna cut off his passing lanes and make him beat them when significant games are on the line and he can't beat that consistently right now because of his weaknesses. We haven't seen it much yet because we have yet to play many significant games in recent years. As we go for the playoffs and play in playoff games it will become much more apparent that you can't have a primary ball handler who can't score and if you say we'll just give the ball to Wiggins or Zach to take care of that job then you take away what makes Ricky effective on offense so you might as well put in a guy like Dunn to "do shit" around the guys actually making the plays instead of just sticking Ricky in a corner.

I don't want to speak for the entire board, because you are right, BlondeRicky has his fans on here, but I have never described him as more than average. And that will not change until he can hit his shots.

I love the fact that he popped off about wanting a trade. He now has painted himself into a corner. He can show up and be better, or his career will end, because noboby is giving big money to a fingerpointer who shoots 35%. And if he hasn't figured it out himself (he did quit school at 14), I'm sure someone has pointed it out to him.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:It's crazy to me that the primary ball handler for this team is allowed to just peak where he's at (10-15th best PG in the league) without issue and it's on everyone else to get better for us to win. Why is Ricky not accountable for getting better and doing more to help us win? He's not doing everything you could ask of him to help us win. He has some serious holes in his game that hurt us at times. It's not acceptable to me that he gets a free pass on improvement when we need it to happen if we want to win more. It's not just up to the big 3. It's up to everyone including Ricky. If Ricky comes out and puts up 10/9/4 again on sub 40% shooting I'll be disappointed. I just don't think you can be much better than .500 with that guys as your primary ball handler.

What do you mean by "allowed", as if anyone within the franchise can just order Rubio to improve or not?

Every player at some point hits their plateau. Rubio is 5 years into his career, so it would be a little foolish to expect a step-level increase in performance next season. That being said, he did have a career year last season, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he actually can keep getting better. And my guess is that he is trying to keep getting better. No one is suggesting he should be fat and happy.

I specifically called out KAT, LaVine, and Wiggins because their age and NBA experience levels suggest more improvement is possible.

Lastly, I'm not sure why a defensive-oriented/pass first PG that doesn't shoot a lot can't lead a team to a .500+ record if he has team mates capable of taking on the scoring load. That makes no sense to me.

"Allowed" was referring to this board just letting him get by scott free for not improving his real weaknesses over the years and the notion he doesn't need to get better. As far as winning with him as the primary ball handler, teams are just gonna cut off his passing lanes and make him beat them when significant games are on the line and he can't beat that consistently right now because of his weaknesses. We haven't seen it much yet because we have yet to play many significant games in recent years. As we go for the playoffs and play in playoff games it will become much more apparent that you can't have a primary ball handler who can't score and if you say we'll just give the ball to Wiggins or Zach to take care of that job then you take away what makes Ricky effective on offense so you might as well put in a guy like Dunn to "do shit" around the guys actually making the plays instead of just sticking Ricky in a corner.

I don't know....hard for me to get upset with a guy that plays as hard as Rubio does and who is above average to elite in literally every category except shooting. Could he have forgone some Spain national team duties to lock himself away for weeks on end doing nothing but shooting jumpers? I suppose, but we know the guy has worked hard on his shot.

There are actually worse open catch-and-shoot players than Rubio out there on playoff squads, so I don't think he'll hold us back as much as you think and it is an area he showed signs of breaking out on last year.

Q12543 wrote:

I don't know....hard for me to get upset with a guy that plays as hard as Rubio does and who is above average to elite in literally every category except shooting. Could he have forgone some Spain national team duties to lock himself away for weeks on end doing nothing but shooting jumpers? I suppose, but we know the guy has worked hard on his shot.


There are actually worse open catch-and-shoot players than Rubio out there on playoff squads, so I don't think he'll hold us back as much as you think and it is an area he showed signs of breaking out on last year.

Hard to say that when there has been no real improvement in that department. I remember at the start of last season watching him shoot and getting excited. His shot actually looked good. Then everything reverted and it was the same line drive brick shot. Wasnt it two years he spent with that famed shooting coach?

There may be worse open catch and shoot players than Rubio on playoff squads, but name one that is a PG who absolutely needs the ball in his hands to be effective?

If Rubio doesn't show improvement this season in his scoring ability, then i'm all for moving on from him next offseason.

One hilarious thing I remembered about Souhan with this take on his podcast is he rips Rubio for not being the guy to lead this young team at the age of 26 and then his next take (which I thought was good and I agree with) is how the Twins and fans shouldn't give up on Buxton because it may take him years to put it all together like it did Torii Hunter. Lol different situations but still a little amusing.