Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio continues to be polarizing. Every seems to like him overall. Yet I think the consensus is that he is middle of the road (12-18th best) in terms of PG rankings in the league. I don't see what the big deal is in looking to upgrade an important position. If Dunn can't become the 15th best point guard in the league then the scouts were way off with this kid. The flashy passes, the control, and the hustle make Rubio very likable. But there are lots of players who can bring as much or more production from that spot. I'm really fine either way, but I see logic in moving him if there is truly a market. His defense looks great on paper, maybe he has significant value that can be capitalized on now. If not we wait and let Dunn develop slowly.

Not really....Only 11-17 in the entire league according to your own estimate. That's not "lots" since most of those guys are firmly ensconced starters on their existing teams and not available right now. Also, some of those guys - like Irving for example - are pure scorers who would take shots away from a team largely built around KAT and Wiggins.

While Dunn may eventually overtake Rubio as the better player - and that would be a good problem to have for sure - I think it would be very risky for Thibs and Layden to presume he's going to be an upgrade and prematurely get rid of Rubio. There is absolutely no reason to do that right now, even though it may ultimately be where things land.

It's approximately half the pgs in the league. Then another 10 or so that would be his equal or a slight downgrade. The odds are ok. It all depends on the market for him, I don't know the calls they are getting but maybe his value is high (which I doubt). If not then we wait it out and deal him if somehow it does improve. I don't think he is the long term guy and I think Thibs and Layton drafting a Point shows that. Now it is just optimizing the business environment to make the move.

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio continues to be polarizing. Every seems to like him overall. Yet I think the consensus is that he is middle of the road (12-18th best) in terms of PG rankings in the league. I don't see what the big deal is in looking to upgrade an important position. If Dunn can't become the 15th best point guard in the league then the scouts were way off with this kid. The flashy passes, the control, and the hustle make Rubio very likable. But there are lots of players who can bring as much or more production from that spot. I'm really fine either way, but I see logic in moving him if there is truly a market. His defense looks great on paper, maybe he has significant value that can be capitalized on now. If not we wait and let Dunn develop slowly.

Not really....Only 11-17 in the entire league according to your own estimate. That's not "lots" since most of those guys are firmly ensconced starters on their existing teams and not available right now. Also, some of those guys - like Irving for example - are pure scorers who would take shots away from a team largely built around KAT and Wiggins.

While Dunn may eventually overtake Rubio as the better player - and that would be a good problem to have for sure - I think it would be very risky for Thibs and Layden to presume he's going to be an upgrade and prematurely get rid of Rubio. There is absolutely no reason to do that right now, even though it may ultimately be where things land.

It's approximately half the pgs in the league. Then another 10 or so that would be his equal or a slight downgrade. The odds are ok. It all depends on the market for him, I don't know the calls they are getting but maybe his value is high (which I doubt). If not then we wait it out and deal him if somehow it does improve. I don't think he is the long term guy and I think Thibs and Layton drafting a Point shows that. Now it is just optimizing the business environment to make the move.

Well, not half the PGs in the league - half the starting PGs in the league.

I think Dunn is more similar to Rubio than dissimilar, so I'd be all for a better version of Rubio. But being a top-half NBA PG is not at all a guarantee just because he was the 5th pick in the draft. Timberwolves fans should know more than anyone how often lottery picks can disappoint our lofty expectations. And even if he does eventually get there, how long does it take? Does he stunt the development of some of the other young guys as he learns the ropes of running an NBA offense?

I think the smart and safe thing to do is to keep Rubio and let Dunn come into his own. By the way, Dunn may not even be our 2nd best PG next season. There is this other guy names Tyus Jones on the roster too, who is known for his poise and lack of turnovers.

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio continues to be polarizing. Every seems to like him overall. Yet I think the consensus is that he is middle of the road (12-18th best) in terms of PG rankings in the league. I don't see what the big deal is in looking to upgrade an important position. If Dunn can't become the 15th best point guard in the league then the scouts were way off with this kid. The flashy passes, the control, and the hustle make Rubio very likable. But there are lots of players who can bring as much or more production from that spot. I'm really fine either way, but I see logic in moving him if there is truly a market. His defense looks great on paper, maybe he has significant value that can be capitalized on now. If not we wait and let Dunn develop slowly.

Not really....Only 11-17 in the entire league according to your own estimate. That's not "lots" since most of those guys are firmly ensconced starters on their existing teams and not available right now. Also, some of those guys - like Irving for example - are pure scorers who would take shots away from a team largely built around KAT and Wiggins.

While Dunn may eventually overtake Rubio as the better player - and that would be a good problem to have for sure - I think it would be very risky for Thibs and Layden to presume he's going to be an upgrade and prematurely get rid of Rubio. There is absolutely no reason to do that right now, even though it may ultimately be where things land.

It's approximately half the pgs in the league. Then another 10 or so that would be his equal or a slight downgrade. The odds are ok. It all depends on the market for him, I don't know the calls they are getting but maybe his value is high (which I doubt). If not then we wait it out and deal him if somehow it does improve. I don't think he is the long term guy and I think Thibs and Layton drafting a Point shows that. Now it is just optimizing the business environment to make the move.

Well, not half the PGs in the league - half the starting PGs in the league.

I think Dunn is more similar to Rubio than dissimilar, so I'd be all for a better version of Rubio. But being a top-half NBA PG is not at all a guarantee just because he was the 5th pick in the draft. Timberwolves fans should know more than anyone how often lottery picks can disappoint our lofty expectations. And even if he does eventually get there, how long does it take? Does he stunt the development of some of the other young guys as he learns the ropes of running an NBA offense?

I think the smart and safe thing to do is to keep Rubio and let Dunn come into his own. By the way, Dunn may not even be our 2nd best PG next season. There is this other guy names Tyus Jones on the roster too, who is known for his poise and lack of turnovers.

I've been thinking about that too, q. Tyus is also known as a better shooter than Ricky and Kris, although he didn't demonstrate that in his limited minutes last season. I'm eager to see if Tyus can take a step forward this season as 2nd year players so often do. He's never going to be anywhere near as athletic or long as Dunn, but he's really still a kid and it's not unlikely that he has packed some muscle on his frame in the off-season. That and some better team defense coaching could help him with his biggest weakness...defense.

There are a lot of good NBA PGs right now.
Most people would probably say the Wolves have two of them, even though the jury is out on Dunn.

Here's what we know:

1. Rubio is a polarizing player. He does some things very well. And he shoots terribly. And that affects how the entire offense runs. Does the new coach want to play that way?
2. If the answer is YES. Rubio stays. If the answer is NO. He's gone.
3. I have no idea which way Thibodeau leans...

Rand makes some very good points in this article. He's thinking similarly to what I have laid out in this thread.

http://www.startribune.com/wolves-free-agency-roundup-and-why-a-splashy-trade-might-make-sense/384559641/

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Rand makes some very good points in this article. He's thinking similarly to what I have laid out in this thread.

http://www.startribune.com/wolves-free-agency-roundup-and-why-a-splashy-trade-might-make-sense/384559641/

So let's say the Butler deal gets done. We lose Dunn and Lavine and get Butler. What's plan B when we make the playoffs and struggle mightily because we lack 3pt shooting basically across the board with the exception of KAT who should never be a volume 3pt shooter? We'll have no good trade assets left that we would want to move. We'll have to pay Bazz and Dieng or lose them and Butler eats up an extra 10 million in cap space versus Zach and Dunn on rookie deals so we have limited cap space if we keep everyone with a poor fitting roster. No trade assets, no cap space and no options is what you're left with if it doesn't work out and that'd be a crippling mistake to make.

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Rand makes some very good points in this article. He's thinking similarly to what I have laid out in this thread.

http://www.startribune.com/wolves-free-agency-roundup-and-why-a-splashy-trade-might-make-sense/384559641/

So let's say the Butler deal gets done. We lose Dunn and Lavine and get Butler. What's plan B when we make the playoffs and struggle mightily because we lack 3pt shooting basically across the board with the exception of KAT who should never be a volume 3pt shooter? We'll have no good trade assets left that we would want to move. We'll have to pay Bazz and Dieng or lose them and Butler eats up an extra 10 million in cap space versus Zach and Dunn on rookie deals so we have limited cap space if we keep everyone with a poor fitting roster. No trade assets, no cap space and no options is what you're left with if it doesn't work out and that'd be a crippling mistake to make.

I'm not the biggest Butler fan there is, but he is an all star caliber player who would combine with KAT and Wig to give us a legit big 3. I hear where you're coming from, and I agree it would suck to lose Zach. We have no idea what Dunn is going to be though. It's a trade I would probably make.