Minnesota Sports Forum

coldfish wrote:

DaKidKG wrote:

coldfish wrote:

Ready for a long, boring post?

Initially, Thibodeau ran approximately 4 to 6 offensive sets tailored for the primary offensive players on the Bulls. High pick and roll for Rose, baseline screens for Korver, a triangle like post play for Boozer, etc. Each play obviously had its options but the general concept was what I described. Basically, a bunch of plays picked based on his players' skills.

Chicago really fell flat in the playoffs in 2011 though. What was happening against Miami in particular was that they were sitting on the Bulls' plays. They knew where everyone was going before they were going there. When Chicago would run high pick and roll with Rose, Miami would set themselves up to defend Rose in waves.

After Rose got injured, Thibodeau started implementing a motion offense based around what the Spurs do. High emphasis on swinging the ball from side to side. Pass and cut stuff. Keep in mind that a motion offense really isn't a single play but a continuously repeating series of decisions and corresponding actions. The triangle is a motion offense. The Spurs run a motion offense just like Golden State does. The intent was obviously to make it so that the offense couldn't be scouted. It actually worked pretty well as the Bulls, without Rose, drastically outperformed expectations two years.

However, as Minnesota fans know, motion offenses aren't easy to teach and if you have players that won't or can't run them, the results are ugly. Derrick Rose does not like motion offenses. I don't mean to be insulting here as I don't think Lebron likes them either. Whenever Derrick was back, the offense really bogged down. Thibodeau eventually went away from the motion last year and went back to stuff Rose was more comfortable with.

Side note: Hoiberg tried to install a motion offense with the same group of players this year and his implementation has made Thibodeau look like an offensive Einstein in comparison.

As far as tempo, the Bulls tended to play slow the last few years. When Rose wasn't healthy, I'm pretty sure it was intentional as the Bulls wanted to turn every game into a grindhouse. However, with Rose Thibs always wanted to push the ball, even when he couldn't get the players to listen.

Sorry for probably answering that more than you wanted.

So he designs the offense based on the strengths of his players? I'm sold.

Well, for the most part. The motion offense that he tried to run was based around problems the team was having, but his personnel weren't motion offense type players.

I didn't even get into defense. That's where he really shines. He has one base defense that he runs that is dependent on active players and good communication. That said, on a nightly basis you will see that it gets tweaked based on who you are playing. This is why people bash Thibodeau for not having a life. He comes up with a game 7 do or die game plan for every freaking game.

He did even start going away from his base scheme once Gasol got there and couldn't move his feet. At one point, the team was running this hybrid defense where Gasol and Noah each took one side of the lane and the other 3 defenders played man to man. I haven't seen that type of defense ever. It actually worked for a while too until teams caught on.

......

Things that you won't like about Thibs:
- He sets his starters and the rotation for the first 3 quarters in the preseason and never changes it. He only adjusts his rotation in the 4th quarter or in case of injury. This has burned him a few times. Easily his worst flaw.
- Young players have to prove that they can handle the NBA in practice. If they can't do well in practice, they don't get many minutes in real games. This frustrates fans. If a young guy does play well though, Thibs will play him. If Thibs doesn't play the guy, there is a good chance that he just sucks.
- He never says anything negative about any individual player. Boozer could have blown a thousand defensive assignments and Thibs would have said he played well in the post game interview. Any criticism is "we", ie. "we need to defend better".
- He is incredibly active on the sideline. You will hear him barking at the players all game long. That irritates some people.

The minutes thing is way overblown. He will have 1 guy who plays a lot if there is no depth. Its been Butler and Deng for him. Outside of that, pretty much everyone is in 30-35mpg or less. Derrick Rose played one of the least amount of minutes for an MVP in league history, just as a point of reference.

Camden wrote:I agree with your last statement, Carlos. "But no more country club guys like Sam Mitchell, Sidney Lowe, Randy Wittman, Kevin McHale etc. We need someone outside of the normal comfort zone."

I also don't think we'd be "settling" for Thibs. Van Gundy's W% is 57.5 over 11 years and he hasn't coached in about a decade. Thibs has a W% of 64.7 over five years and he's done it in the modern NBA. I think Thibs is the superior coach.

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:I agree with your last statement, Carlos. "But no more country club guys like Sam Mitchell, Sidney Lowe, Randy Wittman, Kevin McHale etc. We need someone outside of the normal comfort zone."

I also don't think we'd be "settling" for Thibs. Van Gundy's W% is 57.5 over 11 years and he hasn't coached in about a decade. Thibs has a W% of 64.7 over five years and he's done it in the modern NBA. I think Thibs is the superior coach.

Good point on the W%. I meant "settling" in the sense that I feel many posters are hoping for JVG or Red Auerbach - lol. Thibs intrigues me. I just hope they are actively lining guys up so they can settle on someone as soon as the tank is over. I want coach/GM in place long before the draft.