Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden, you're killing the Bucks with that trade.

There's no guarantee that Shved and Price would make another NBA roster. And, Shabazz isn't ready for the NBA right now. And, no guarantee he will ever be.

Even while struggling, Mayo is a rotation guy for just about every NBA team.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Camden, you're killing the Bucks with that trade.

There's no guarantee that Shved and Price would make another NBA roster. And, Shabazz isn't ready for the NBA right now. And, no guarantee he will ever be.

Even while struggling, Mayo is a rotation guy for just about every NBA team.

Price isn't supposed to make the roster, but he's a salary fit in the trade that likely would be cut. Shved's good enough to make a roster. Still has medium potential too. I think the hate on him is a little too strong, though I agree some is warranted for his poor play. Shabazz... we truly don't know about him yet. We know he's got a hell of a work ethic, good rebounder for his position and he scored 17 PPG as a freshman in the Pac. Other than that, we don't really know, though we have our opinions.

I get what you're saying, though. Apparently I fleeced ther Bucks in my hypothetical deal. Lol that's fine, I'll accept it. That's why I asked about it. Question: Is the way Mayo playing anywhere near 8M per year? Do the Bucks need players like that while they're in a rebuild? What would other teams give up for Mayo and his contract? Do the Bucks have enough players with decent potential?

Markkbu...you seem very optimistic in regards to the Bench and its ability to keep us in games. I don't see what you are talking about. Stats wise perhaps they are improving, but in the last month alone they have give up a 51 point difference in bench to OKC, and 31, 35, 49 point differences also. Our Bench is weak, and if we want to be a playoff team we need not only a moderate increase in production, we need a top 5 in the "West" Bench. Trading D Will for me was a hot mess move, and then to give Luc minimal minutes in his stead is a failure...he needs to be in the starting lineup because right now, our Bench is our Achilles heal, and Brewer is simply not a starter, he needs to be coming off the becnh and sparking that second unit.

slimcalhoun27 wrote:Markkbu...you seem very optimistic in regards to the Bench and its ability to keep us in games. I don't see what you are talking about. Stats wise perhaps they are improving, but in the last month alone they have give up a 51 point difference in bench to OKC, and 31, 35, 49 point differences also. Our Bench is weak, and if we want to be a playoff team we need not only a moderate increase in production, we need a top 5 in the "West" Bench. Trading D Will for me was a hot mess move, and then to give Luc minimal minutes in his stead is a failure...he needs to be in the starting lineup because right now, our Bench is our Achilles heal, and Brewer is simply not a starter, he needs to be coming off the becnh and sparking that second unit.

Slim......you seem to have misunderstood my posts here. I would suggest that you go back and re-read them.

I have never expressed any degree of optimism at our bench's ability to keep us in games (outside of pointing out the number of times that they actually have done so on different threads)

Our bench is showing significant improvement in their ability to score. For the first 1/2 of the season, our bench was the worst scoring bench in the league. Now stats show our bench is merely below average.

(please note that by saying that our bench is merely below average does not imply at all that I believe that our bench can consistently keep us in games, below average benches don't do that often)


The bench has shown significant improvement.......I can say confidently that our bench is not the worst in the league anymore. Being able to say that is indicative of significant improvement. I am happy with the improvement that I have seen with our bench.......and I hope that level of improvement continues through the course of the season. By the end of the season I believe that they have the potential to be an about average bench.

markkbu wrote:

thedoper wrote:I am very cautious about any stat of the bench improving. I think their statistical improvement is 100% coincidental with the improvement of Love and Pekovic's numbers since they never play without one of those guys on the floor. The only bench player with any real impact (good or bad) on the floor continues to be JJ. If Pek or Love take any sort of dip we are back to square 1. Our bench is still horrible except for the fact that Love and Pek lift their play. They are still the Worst FG%, 3rd worst 3pt %, 3rd worst in offensive efficiency, and worst defensive efficiency despite the supposedly amazing defensive play of MBAM. I will say that Shved does look more aggressive. But that is going from horrible to kind of horrible. I think they will have to go more than 10 games of kind of horrible before I am behind this supposed improvement.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/14/7/pts/1-1

That is where I got my #s from too.

Interesting that you look at FG%, 3pt%, offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency for the year. Those are excellent examples that very effectively make the original point. Look at were we are over the last 10 games and the last 5 games (it is really easy to do) versus where were are for the year.

Here they are for the people that don't want to spend the time.

...............Year Stats...........Last 10 games........................Last 5 games
FG%..........30th........................17th.....................................12th
3pt%..........27th.........................3rd......................................10th
Off Eff.........27th........................21st.....................................24th
Def Eff........30th........................25th.....................................20th


Significant improvement in every area.....very good to see.

Again, for suggestions as to why these improvements are occurring, I would reference my original post.

I think there is a basic problem in picking out 10 game stats to show improvement, which is what I was try to express to begin with. The metric for improvement is ranking which can be changed by a factor of 2 for one game. After picking a 10 game set after a stretch of 3 or 4 games against weak opponents you can show "significant" improvement according to your logic, which is precisely what you did. If you look at the stats today after one game, most metrics (besides our already horrible Def efficiency) decrease by a factor of 2. The reality is that the more statistically relevant stats are the season as a whole, which still shows us being horrible with no impact from these supposedly more "smart players". All your stats show to me is that the bench played a stretch of mediocre play against shitty teams like The bucks and the Wizards. As a whole they are still amongst the league's worst and you can't blame Dwill for that. To try and include your smart player argument as being represented statistically is working backwards from your preconceived notions of the value of players.

vs Philly

The bench had 26 points in the first half.........47 in the game......

pretty good

pretty good

pretty good

Would you trade Budinger and Shabazz for Evan Turner?

The obvious answer here is yes. The issue is that there is absolutely no way the Phili even remotely thinks about this deal. First thing, while Turner certainly has his shooting deficiencies, he is a net positive as the leading scorer, and often times leading ball-handler for that team. Also, let's not pretend that Bud has value around the league. He is a mediocre player, that while know as a shooter, is actually a very average shooter. Also, he is way overpaid for his production. Couple that with the fact that he has played 58, 23 and 0 games the past 3 seasons (including current), and is still dealing with what looks to me to be a chronic issue.

Just not sure we have the assets to get a highly productive player in a trade.