At this point....

[Phenom]

The Celtics were an anomaly. The Spurs model is what we should all be clamoring for - continuity. They kept their core intact for what seems like a million years and rarely make trades. They are the model for success by not always pursuing new toys but instead building a system and chemistry that is unmatched.

[Phenom]

My preference is to trade no one, honestly. There are exceptions like trading bench fodder like Turiaf or Bud but unless the Wolves are blown away by an. offer they need to stick it out and let this team grow for once. Too many people want instant results and when it doesnt happen, they want to keep shuffling the deck. I thought the healthy version of the team looked pretty good. I want to see Flip build on that.

Best take of the thread. We have historically given up on guys too soon. With our health issues (though some could have been predicted) and youth we are right where we should be. And I'm just not willing to make judgments on what we have seen so far. For once, let's see what cream rises to the top, and what sludge sinks to the bottom before cutting bait.

Not sure if I blindly agree with either of these sentiments. Name me the players that left the Wolves and developed into something special? Either you have the talent or you don't. Our talent apart from Wiggins and Rubio is very mediocre. Pek, Martin and Brewer are capable NBA players and contenders could use them. My main point is why are they on our roster now that it is clear this season is a write off. As for trading youngsters, I know Flip wont risk the core 6 young guys at this point, and I am not sure that is the answer. But the only 3 players I really care to see stay on the Wolves are Rubio, Wiggins and Bazz (to a lesser extant Gorgui) for various reasons.

Sounds like you want us to be just like the Detroit Lions - Rebuilding, since 1957. What you're suggesting as a strategy will only result in the need to continually rebuild. In the NBA you need 2 or 3 stars, and hopefully we find that in some combination of Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, Rubio, and our number 1 pick next year. But you also need specialists and role players, and some of our current players can become those pieces.

To be fair, the Wolves are the NBA equivalent. Should the Clippers somehow win a title... the Wolves have a legit claim as the worst franchise in the NBA.

They are the equivalent. The Wolves have consistently had high personnel turnover since the playoff days. Its a big reason why they have the longest playoff drought without a doubt. We can't start from scratch every two years and expect a winning culture.

[AbeVigodaLive]

My preference is to trade no one, honestly. There are exceptions like trading bench fodder like Turiaf or Bud but unless the Wolves are blown away by an. offer they need to stick it out and let this team grow for once. Too many people want instant results and when it doesnt happen, they want to keep shuffling the deck. I thought the healthy version of the team looked pretty good. I want to see Flip build on that.

Best take of the thread. We have historically given up on guys too soon. With our health issues (though some could have been predicted) and youth we are right where we should be. And I'm just not willing to make judgments on what we have seen so far. For once, let's see what cream rises to the top, and what sludge sinks to the bottom before cutting bait.

Not sure if I blindly agree with either of these sentiments. Name me the players that left the Wolves and developed into something special? Either you have the talent or you don't. Our talent apart from Wiggins and Rubio is very mediocre. Pek, Martin and Brewer are capable NBA players and contenders could use them. My main point is why are they on our roster now that it is clear this season is a write off. As for trading youngsters, I know Flip wont risk the core 6 young guys at this point, and I am not sure that is the answer. But the only 3 players I really care to see stay on the Wolves are Rubio, Wiggins and Bazz (to a lesser extant Gorgui) for various reasons.

Sounds like you want us to be just like the Detroit Lions - Rebuilding, since 1957. What you're suggesting as a strategy will only result in the need to continually rebuild. In the NBA you need 2 or 3 stars, and hopefully we find that in some combination of Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, Rubio, and our number 1 pick next year. But you also need specialists and role players, and some of our current players can become those pieces.

To be fair, the Wolves are the NBA equivalent. Should the Clippers somehow win a title... the Wolves have a legit claim as the worst franchise in the NBA.

They are the equivalent. The Wolves have consistently had high personnel turnover since the playoff days. Its a big reason why they have the longest playoff drought without a doubt. We can't start from scratch every two years and expect a winning culture.

I think there's an important assumption in each of your previous posts... so this works for both of them... You need to have talent. The Spurs have talent. And speak of anomalies... no team in NBA history has had such an extended run of 50+ win seasons.

The Wolves have not had the talent. And in the NBA, it's all about talent. Plus, almost every new CBA provision favors even more roster change than ever before. The days of building a team of bit parts waiting for them to grow together is nearly dead.

You find your superstar. And you hold on for dear life... and build around them. The writing is on the wall...

[thedoper]

The Celtics were an anomaly. The Spurs model is what we should all be clamoring for - continuity. They kept their core intact for what seems like a million years and rarely make trades. They are the model for success by not always pursuing new toys but instead building a system and chemistry that is unmatched.

I don't think the Celtics were an anomaly. The Lakers, Heat, now the Cavs followed suit right behind them. The Spurs are the only team that had a predominantly homegrown team and did it by tanking out on a draft with a once in a generation player who was extremely talented and extremely durable. That makes them the anomaly. All of the other examples of the Spurs model lose steam because of the amount of extra time it takes. If Ducan 2.0 is in this draft, let's tank away.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

What's so disappointing is that we're not getting to see this team with its vets on the floor with the youngsters.

We can't be surprised this team is this bad given our circumstances. Let's be honest, this was a projected 27 win team that has lost its top three players and is relying heavily on rookies with only one PG on the roster. I know guys had/have high hopes for Wiggins and LaVine, but they are super raw (on most teams, LaVine would be in the D League). Bennett has shown some good shooting, but with every jumper he takes (and in many cases makes), he makes you realize he just doesn't ever play down low, revealing his limitations as a player. Dieng hasn't looked like the guy from the end of last year. Muhammad might be the only young guy who has met expectations. We may not know what we have from all those guys for a couple years, though Muhammad seems to be coming into his own a bit.

Still, it's been disappointing. There wasn't much of a sample size to go on before Rubio went down, but there were at least signs of a potentially competitive team. And even afterward, I think a lot of us (myself included) were hoping to see more quality performances from the young guys to get us at least excited for the future and maybe win a few games before the vets came back. But besides a few solid games and one great game from Wiggins, one great game from LaVine, and some nice shooting from Bennett, it's been more famine that feast with them. Meanwhile, the offense looks completely lost and the defense is just absolutely atrocious, which might be the hardest part to swallow. I can accept a young team not picking up an offense quickly, but such porous defense--especially with a #1 pick who was supposed to be a stellar defender--has been tough to watch.

At the end of the day, we're still missing our 3 best players. We lost a huge part of our team with Love leaving. We've got a new coach. I'm not surprised we're really bad though of course I'm disappointed. But I'm most disappointed that we haven't gotten a chance to see this team at full strength. With Rubio, Martin, and Pek, I do think we'd be a significantly better team. An interesting blend of youth and experience. More than 30 wins? Maybe not, but that would still be a team with a lot of youth and turnover, so a 30 win season in the West would have been pretty decent to be honest. Now, we'll have to wait until everybody gets back to really start to see what we've got. The one thing we do know is that without Rubio, Martin, and Pek, this is a really bad team.

[thedoper]

What's so disappointing is that we're not getting to see this team with its vets on the floor with the youngsters.

We can't be surprised this team is this bad given our circumstances. Let's be honest, this was a projected 27 win team that has lost its top three players and is relying heavily on rookies with only one PG on the roster. I know guys had/have high hopes for Wiggins and LaVine, but they are super raw (on most teams, LaVine would be in the D League). Bennett has shown some good shooting, but with every jumper he takes (and in many cases makes), he makes you realize he just doesn't ever play down low, revealing his limitations as a player. Dieng hasn't looked like the guy from the end of last year. Muhammad might be the only young guy who has met expectations. We may not know what we have from all those guys for a couple years, though Muhammad seems to be coming into his own a bit.

Still, it's been disappointing. There wasn't much of a sample size to go on before Rubio went down, but there were at least signs of a potentially competitive team. And even afterward, I think a lot of us (myself included) were hoping to see more quality performances from the young guys to get us at least excited for the future and maybe win a few games before the vets came back. But besides a few solid games and one great game from Wiggins, one great game from LaVine, and some nice shooting from Bennett, it's been more famine that feast with them. Meanwhile, the offense looks completely lost and the defense is just absolutely atrocious, which might be the hardest part to swallow. I can accept a young team not picking up an offense quickly, but such porous defense--especially with a #1 pick who was supposed to be a stellar defender--has been tough to watch.

At the end of the day, we're still missing our 3 best players. We lost a huge part of our team with Love leaving. We've got a new coach. I'm not surprised we're really bad though of course I'm disappointed. But I'm most disappointed that we haven't gotten a chance to see this team at full strength. With Rubio, Martin, and Pek, I do think we'd be a significantly better team. An interesting blend of youth and experience. More than 30 wins? Maybe not, but that would still be a team with a lot of youth and turnover, so a 30 win season in the West would have been pretty decent to be honest. Now, we'll have to wait until everybody gets back to really start to see what we've got. The one thing we do know is that without Rubio, Martin, and Pek, this is a really bad team.

All fair and logical points. I was all for the be competitive plan while the season was in play, but now it is clearly lost. So the criticisms about our team ring true at this point as well. What are we as a team? Are we trying to be competitive or admittedly rebuilding? Can we really do it at the same time? At this point it looks as if we can't. Brewer seems the most salient example right now. He is giving us great hustle and effort at a position which we are overloaded with young talent. So why? Is he in the way of player development or teaching the youngsters the right way to play. These are all very complex questions but I would get more of a kick out of the rest of the season by seeing a rebuild/player development plan be clearly enacted.

[AbeVigodaLive]

If there's anything I want out of yet another lost Wolves season... figure out an identity for the team... and for the franchise.

I was hoping for more novel approaches with the addition of Saunders. That doesn't look feasible right now. At least if they were losing while trying something new with a clear plan in place seems like there's a place for hope. Instead, there's a hint of hitting the franchise's collective head against the wall over and over again.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

All fair and logical points. I was all for the be competitive plan while the season was in play, but now it is clearly lost. So the criticisms about our team ring true at this point as well. What are we as a team? Are we trying to be competitive or admittedly rebuilding? Can we really do it at the same time? At this point it looks as if we can't. Brewer seems the most salient example right now. He is giving us great hustle and effort at a position which we are overloaded with young talent. So why? Is he in the way of player development or teaching the youngsters the right way to play. These are all very complex questions but I would get more of a kick out of the rest of the season by seeing a rebuild/player development plan be clearly enacted.

I feel like we already know what Flip's plan was. Dump Love for Wiggins and Bennett, add them to Muhammad and Dieng who he added last year, and pick up LaVine (another raw potential guy) more or less investing pretty heavily in youth and potential. In the meantime, change JJ for Mo and add Thad to put a blend of veterans with the young guys so that we don't look like the Sixers. Then extend Rubio long term as the linchpin of the team. That was still not going to make the playoffs this year, but if Wiggins developed as projected, if Dieng could show last year wasn't a fluke, and if one or two of the other young guys could become above average players, this could be a playoff team in a couple years with a mix of vets (Rubio, Martin, Brewer, Thad (if he extends), Pek) and young up and comers, including one more lottery player next summer in the process. That, as best I can guess, is the plan.

It's not a "win now" plan but a conservative mixed approach plan. I think it may be a good one. The problem is, with our best three vets injured right now, we can't really see it in action. But that doesn't mean the plan is shot. If anything, what we're seeing now should be a warning about what would happen if we did dump the vets and go for more of a Sixers rebuild process. The lesson of this stretch isn't "we should dump the vets" but "ohh yeah, this is why we need good vets." In the meantime, let's hope the young guys learn and grow while getting thrown to the . . . well, wolves.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Time to extend the shooting range to the 3 point line. There is literally zero reason at this point to not shoot 3's. It has to be developed at some point and shooting long 2's is just leading to huge blowouts. Pull the training wheels off of Wiggins/Bennett/Lavine/Bazz and let them fire away if it is open. What Flip is trying isn't working and there is no way getting blown out on a consistent basis because we are getting so severely beat in the 3 pt category is going to help this team in the long-run. We're 16th in percentage yet 2nd to last in the league in attempts and makes. We're giving the other team a 9 point (almost 12 point) advantage on us (5.1 made for us and 8.8 given up to the other team). The defense is atrocious and the offensive gameplan is highly inefficient compared to the rest of the league. At some point it has to become obvious to Flip that this play style can't win games any more and he needs to at least add the 3 pt line to his offensive scheme.

[Papalrep]

SameOldDrew--Meanwhile, the offense looks completely lost and the defense is just absolutely atrocious, which might be the hardest part to swallow. I can accept a young team not picking up an offense quickly, but such porous defense--especially with a #1 pick who was supposed to be a stellar defender--has been tough to watch.


When does Flip start getting critizized for the putrid defense? Is this all about a lack of talent? Flip has never been known as a defensive guru, but the team is embarrassing to watch play defense. Ditto previous post on 3 pointers. Flip, its like the home run in baseball - the three point shot is here to stay.

I know Flip has nothing to work with, but should we not be able to discern a defensive philosophy at least? The players against Philly looked lost - that's on Flip