Wiggins vs McDermott

[worldK]

I understand the arguments of those who favor the bulls deal. They think we are going to get all four of McDermott, mirotic, Gibson and butler. But we probably won't get butler. The pro bulls trade also think that we won't have to go full rebuild if we make the bulls trade but realistically, we probably end up with the same record whether we do the cavs trade or the bulls trade. McDermott and mirotic are as unproven in the nba as wiggins is and they don't have the natural physical talent and two way upside of wiggins.

We should remember that we still have Rubio and pek in the lineup. I expect Rubio to take a big step forward, this,is going to be his team now and if he could stamp his identity and competitiveness to the team then we are going to be playing hard all year. we won't make the playoffs but we aren't going to be the sixers, bucks, jazz or lakers of last year.

My stand has been that you could always find a Gibson, McDermott and butler late in every draft. But wiggins is a talent that is not going to be there past top 3 every year. He is no Derrick Williams where he had a couple of good games in college and got hyped up nor is he a beasley that carry with him a lot of baggage. Wiggins has been watch closely since high school and he has always performed. Yeah, he didn't have a Great college freshman year but he was very good. You can see the talent and the potential there and he is a good kid with good character. Develop him properly with good coaching and teaching and he will be an all star. It make take 3-4 years for him to get there but it's going to be worth the wait if he reaches his full potential.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

We already have a Euro big that's better than Mirotic waiting to come over. The Cleveland package is better.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Forget Mirotic. I'd still take Butler, Gibson, and McDermott over Wiggins, a potential bust in Bennett, and a future late 1st rounder.

I think McDermott will be better than what others think and Wiggins will not be as great as others think. I won't be upset if we end up with Wiggins, but I would prefer a Chicago deal.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Forget Mirotic. I'd still take Butler, Gibson, and McDermott over Wiggins, a potential bust in Bennett, and a future late 1st rounder.

I think McDermott will be better than what others think and Wiggins will not be as great as others think. I won't be upset if we end up with Wiggins, but I would prefer a Chicago deal.

I don't see Butler being involved. Chicago's in "win now" mode and Butler is an All-NBA caliber defender. They need him to guard LeBron and Paul George in the East.

Realistically, we're looking at something like McDermott, Gibson, Snell and a 1st from Chicago. They gave their word to Mirotic that they wouldn't move him and I don't see Chicago as a franchise that would go against their word like that.

Also, keep in mind that Flip is likely pursuing Thaddeus Young to be our starting power forward moving forward. All we know right now is Minnesota could end up with Wiggins, Young and a 1st out of all this.

Is Wiggins, Young and a 1st better than McDermott, Gibson, Snell and a 1st? I'd say so, and it isn't even close for me.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Forget Mirotic. I'd still take Butler, Gibson, and McDermott over Wiggins, a potential bust in Bennett, and a future late 1st rounder.

I think McDermott will be better than what others think and Wiggins will not be as great as others think. I won't be upset if we end up with Wiggins, but I would prefer a Chicago deal.

I don't see Butler being involved. Chicago's in "win now" mode and Butler is an All-NBA caliber defender. They need him to guard LeBron and Paul George in the East.

Realistically, we're looking at something like McDermott, Gibson, Snell and a 1st from Chicago. They gave their word to Mirotic that they wouldn't move him and I don't see Chicago as a franchise that would go against their word like that.

Also, keep in mind that Flip is likely pursuing Thaddeus Young to be our starting power forward moving forward. All we know right now is Minnesota could end up with Wiggins, Young and a 1st out of all this.

Is Wiggins, Young and a 1st better than McDermott, Gibson, Snell and a 1st? I'd say so, and it isn't even close for me.

If this were actually the options, I would probably lean closer to the Cleveland deal. The Bulls deal always appealed to me because it was a mix of proven vets on decent contracts that can defend the hell out of people + a very good prospect.

[Monster]

Forget Mirotic. I'd still take Butler, Gibson, and McDermott over Wiggins, a potential bust in Bennett, and a future late 1st rounder.

I think McDermott will be better than what others think and Wiggins will not be as great as others think. I won't be upset if we end up with Wiggins, but I would prefer a Chicago deal.

I don't see Butler being involved. Chicago's in "win now" mode and Butler is an All-NBA caliber defender. They need him to guard LeBron and Paul George in the East.

Realistically, we're looking at something like McDermott, Gibson, Snell and a 1st from Chicago. They gave their word to Mirotic that they wouldn't move him and I don't see Chicago as a franchise that would go against their word like that.

Also, keep in mind that Flip is likely pursuing Thaddeus Young to be our starting power forward moving forward. All we know right now is Minnesota could end up with Wiggins, Young and a 1st out of all this.

Is Wiggins, Young and a 1st better than McDermott, Gibson, Snell and a 1st? I'd say so, and it isn't even close for me.

If this were actually the options, I would probably lean closer to the Cleveland deal. The Bulls deal always appealed to me because it was a mix of proven vets on decent contracts that can defend the hell out of people + a very good prospect.

Q have you taken time to consider how do you feel about Young as a player?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Monster, I think Young is best used as a 6th or 7th man off the bench playing the 4. He can be a very efficient player if used effectively. I would almost prefer Dieng as a defensive starting 4 that plays aggressive, tough defense next to Pekovic and then gets subbed out early for someone like Young, who can provide a shot of energy and a different look offensively.

[Lipoli390]

Kevin Love is slightly undersized for his position and unathletic. Yet, he's he's a star and best player at his position because of a great skill set and super high basketball IQ. No reason McDermott and Mirotic can't be all-star caliber players at their respective positions.

Wiggins' speed and uber athleticism give him a higher upside than McDermott or Mirotic, but his suspect handle, shooting deficiencies and overall undeveloped package of skills give him a lower floor and lower probability of reaching his ceiling.

Assuming that Jimmy Butler is included with McDermott and Mirotic, I think it's a close call between that package and the Cleveland package consisting of Wiggins and Bennett along with the Miami and Memphis picks. I'm assuming we wold include Brewer in either deal as part of our outgoing package. I'd still lean slightly towards the Wiggins package because of his upside as an athletic two-way player/lock-down defender and because I'm apparently one of the few who thinks Bennett could be a very good player.

So I'd be very happy with either deal. Of course, we don't know exactly who would be in each of these two deals. I may also be one of the few who would be really happy dealing Love and Martin for Klay Thompson, David Lee, either Harrison Barnes or Draymond Green - preferably Green.

[Monster]

Monster, I think Young is best used as a 6th or 7th man off the bench playing the 4. He can be a very efficient player if used effectively. I would almost prefer Dieng as a defensive starting 4 that plays aggressive, tough defense next to Pekovic and then gets subbed out early for someone like Young, who can provide a shot of energy and a different look offensively.

Q thanks for your thoughts I get what you are saying. The problem with starting Dieng is then he can't sub in for Pek and if he gets in foul trouble playing that aggressive D you mention then Pek has to play big minutes which is not what we want to see. Thad's rebounding is a concern. He isn't a rim protector, but his steal numbers are good and it sounds from what I read like he is team player and defender. He might not be ideal, but he might be that guy that can cover alot of ground quickly and make up for other guys in that way.

Another thing about Thad is he isn't a bigtime rebounder, and those 6 rebounds a game last year are very underwhelming. I believe he spent chunks of his career playing as a SF so that has to be taken into account when looking at his career numbers. In addition last year Hawes actually rebounded well and Young played with a PG in MCW that averaged 6rpg and alot of the year with Turner that averaged 6rpg as well. I don't want to make excuses for Thad, but just saying he might not be quite as bad as the basic rebounding numbers have shown. My overall problem with him is he hasn't really produced alot over time, but it seemed like they always had guys in front of him at the forward positions.

[bleedspeed]

Guys Mirotic won't be part of the package. He only signed with CHI on conditions he wouldn't be traded. Surely the Bulls would honour that, even with Love as the prize.

This is over blown. I am sure if they told him we are trading you to the Wolves for Love. He would be happy get a chance to play with Rubio and Pekovic.