Rubio Extension?

[mjs34]

Pek got a five year 60 mil deal. 12 mil a season, not 15. No way the wolves give Ricky that much. They would be better off waiting till next season, and letting him go out and get an offer. Oops, nevermind, Flip doesn't understand how RFA works, which is why Pek got a 5/60 deal last season.

[Lipoli390]

I meant 4 years/$50 million, which is about what Pek got on an annual basis. I think it will take that much to keep Ricky here and the Wolves had better be willing to do it.

[worldK]

I meant 4 years/$50 million, which is about what Pek got on an annual basis. I think it will take that much to keep Ricky here and the Wolves had better be willing to do it.

Thats what i have been predicting for a while now. 4yrs/50m deal. A little more than lawson,curry,holiday and rondo and same with parker. A deal that his camp would deem fair and very reasonable.

Lip, you made good points that rubio is the only one on the team that other players would like to play with. Every team mate of his ha said 1 time or another that they enjoy playing with him even ridnour and barea and they play the same position. Simply put, Rubio can play with anybody.

Also,rubio is the most popular player on the team since he's been here. Even more so than love even before love wanting out. I think rubio's jersey has been the constant best selling jersey of the wolves. He is a draw to the fanbase and that will add to him getting paid by the team.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

First, we can't set a player's value based on an assessment of his stats or abilities relative to others at his position or relative to players at any other position. The market sets a player's value.

These characteristics put butts in seats, but even from a basketball standpoint, they can help attract talent. Other players like playing with a pass-first PG and Ricky is the pentultimate pass-first PG.

I have to respond here.

The first bold statement is what can destroy a franchise. I fully realize that other teams ultimately control the ultimate "market value", but each team needs to draw a line in the sand prior to the bidding on any player and determine that players impact to wins and losses. We saw a great example just today. Meeks I believe got 3/$19. The market (1 stupid team) simply set his price WAY higher than any other team should have been willing to pay. This is a horrible deal for Detroit, and one that I simply don't understand. All of his years in the league point to a bench player that will have minimal impact to overall wins and losses. He simply doesn't sway the needle more than a couple games to the positive. Everyone else simply walked away, as they should have, and let Detroit have him. Would it have been OK for the Wolves to pay $19M for Meeks because the market said it was so? Same logic can and should apply to Ricky. Despite what other guys have gotten for deals, and despite what someone might offer, they need to draw a line and not budge. If the Wolves truly believe his impact on the court is $12M+ per season, then so be it. But they can't get cornered based on historical figures.

The next is the comment about guys wanting to play with Ricky. I am confused here. In a previous sentence you talked about how we HAVE to expect to pay ANY FA a % upcharge to have a chance. But then there is the comment above about how everyone wants to play with Ricky? Can't be both, so which is it? Either Ricky is so special, and is able to become an ambassador for free agents, or his "fancy passing" isn't a draw for this team from a recruiting standpoint. Maybe it has more to do with silly things like winning. I have yet to see Rubio's passing impact our ability to draw anyone to Minnesota, so I guess I don't put much weight here. The whole debate about players wanting to play with Rubio over other types of PG is completely overblown IMO. I think if you polled players in the league and said either Westbrook or Rubio (with Rubio clearly being the better passer), they would pick Westy 100/100. Why, because he plays on a great team, and is the better player. His "passing style" wouldn't really ever probably be discussed. In fact, I have yet to ever hear a player say he was signing because the PG passes well.

[mrhockey89]

Hicks, it actually can be both. Wolves may have to overpay some players to choose the Wolves over a contender, however without Rubio, there's nothing on the proverbial needle to give them further reason to sign here. Look at the comment from Mychal Thompson, which was to talk his kid off the ledge by reminding him that he would be able to play with Rubio, the best passer in the game. Imagine how that conversation would go if we didn't have Rubio... "Hey son, keep your head up, it's not every day you get to play with JJ Barea"?

[Lipoli390]

Hicks, it actually can be both. Wolves may have to overpay some players to choose the Wolves over a contender, however without Rubio, there's nothing on the proverbial needle to give them further reason to sign here. Look at the comment from Mychal Thompson, which was to talk his kid off the ledge by reminding him that he would be able to play with Rubio, the best passer in the game. Imagine how that conversation would go if we didn't have Rubio... "Hey son, keep your head up, it's not every day you get to play with JJ Barea"?

Hockey, you nailed it.

I'll add in response to Hicks comment about valuing a player's impact on the court by noting that you can't attach a dollar value to a player's "impact on the court." There isn't any metric for converting on-court impact into dollars. Each player has a market value and the market value is set by what other teams are willing and able to pay. Some teams/markets have to pay a higher (premium) amount while others get a lower (discounted) price based on all the factors I listed in my previous post.

Unfortunately, almost all the relevant factors cut against the Wolves right now - losing history, lack of stability, cold weather etc. the only thing we have going for us now is Ricky. I think Mychal Thompson's comment you quoted is a great example of Ricky's value as the one thing we have to help attract good players.

[TheGrey08]

I honestly was initially thinking 8-10 mill for Rubio, but Hockey and Lip make good points. However I don't think it's quite fair to compare Rubio to a center for salary. We all know centers have been overpaid in the NBA for at least 10 years (it's harder to find even serviceable centers let alone those will good skill sets). Therefore if Rubio gets the same 12.5 mill avg per that doesn't necessarily mean the team values him equally as important as Pek. They just had to overpay to keep him b/c other teams we possibly willing to pay that or more.

I think/hope they start out at 5 yr 50 mill and go up to 5 yr 60 if needed. Ricky always seems like a very unselfish dude so I don't see him hard lining for a max deal, but who knows.

[mjs34]

Rumor has it that the Raptors are offering Lowry $14.5M. Hopefully that's not the case otherwise I can see Ricky getting something along those lines. If I'm Ricky's agent I'm going for the max, casual Wolves fans will herald Ricky as a hero after Love leaves and marketability counts even if Ricky's NBA skills aren't sharp as the payday demands

Looks like that might be a little off -

According to league sources the Raptors are comfortable going to $11 million for four years. The real decision will be what they want to do with the fifth year -- an enticement they are the only team in position to offer as Lowry is a returning free agent. SportsNet

Rumors tagsToronto Raptors, Free Agency, Kyle Lowry
- See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.wrvM1tr5.dpuf

[mrhockey89]

I honestly was initially thinking 8-10 mill for Rubio, but Hockey and Lip make good points. However I don't think it's quite fair to compare Rubio to a center for salary. We all know centers have been overpaid in the NBA for at least 10 years (it's harder to find even serviceable centers let alone those will good skill sets). Therefore if Rubio gets the same 12.5 mill avg per that doesn't necessarily mean the team values him equally as important as Pek. They just had to overpay to keep him b/c other teams we possibly willing to pay that or more.

I think/hope they start out at 5 yr 50 mill and go up to 5 yr 60 if needed. Ricky always seems like a very unselfish dude so I don't see him hard lining for a max deal, but who knows.

BT, while I agree with your statement about centers being generally overpaid in the NBA, imagine you're Flip at the negotiating table and Ricky's agent (let's face it, Ricky may be an unselfish guy, but he won't be in the middle of the negotiations until there's a sticking point) says to you, "You pay Pekovic, a player who plays 75% of the games each year, a player who my client (Ricky) makes a much more effective player than he would be on most teams, $12 mil/yr. My client is probably the most important player on the team, has a generally clean injury history, and is what you're trying to build your team around as evidenced by your draft this year, is not good but elite in stealing, rebounding, assists, help defense, court vision, and is your leader. The only thing my client doesn't excel in is scoring, and his best scoring games came without Love in the lineup, something that's about to happen permanently. What do you think my client is worth?" Would you really respond with a number that's near 75% of what Pekovic makes on a contract that Pekovic signed in the past while knowing the salary cap is increasing?

I won't be surprised if it takes a max contract to keep Ricky, or something very close to it. The difference with him on the court vs off the court is night and day, and you've got teams like the Knicks who would easily pull the trigger on Rubio in free agency (especially when you consider they just had to go through the Raymond Felton year that they did), and if you're Rubio and your options are to be paid less by the Wolves or more by the Knicks, you're going to the Knicks. After all, everyone has been telling you that you should be on the big stage since day one and they'd be better able to hype him as a player to build around when bringing in other free agents.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

I think Ricky will get at least $12 million a year, and quite possibly a contract around the max.