Minnesota Sports Forum

kms789 wrote:

Camden wrote:Age: 23
Per 36:

Kidd: 11.0 pts, 9.1 ast, 4.6 reb, 2.3 stl, 0.4 blk, .498 TS%
Rubio: 10.7 pts, 9.6 ast, 4.7 reb, 2.6 stl, 0.2 blk, .491 TS%

Just saying...

Another similarity is that those Dallas teams, where Kidd was so bad at scoring, never came close to making the playoffs.

Uh, I'm not following you here. He averaged fewer points per game in his second stint at Dallas, yet they managed to win a title. He also managed to take two consecutive Nets teams to the Finals where they never had a player average more than 19PPG.

northernhoops wrote:

kms789 wrote:

Camden wrote:Age: 23
Per 36:

Kidd: 11.0 pts, 9.1 ast, 4.6 reb, 2.3 stl, 0.4 blk, .498 TS%
Rubio: 10.7 pts, 9.6 ast, 4.7 reb, 2.6 stl, 0.2 blk, .491 TS%

Just saying...

Another similarity is that those Dallas teams, where Kidd was so bad at scoring, never came close to making the playoffs.

He averaged 7.7 PTS when they won it all in 2011....

Kidd's TS% was historically low his first 3 years, around 47%, but improved afterwards, averaging over 50% TS on every other stop of his career. On that 2003 Nets team, he scored 18.7pts/game on 53% TS with a Usage% of 26. That's a much different player than Rubio this year, who scored 9pts/game, with 49% TS and a Usage% of 16.

Young Jason Kidd had a ton of holes in his game, prime Kidd was really good, and old Kidd was a role player. When he won the title he had a Usage% of 14, which was 14th on the team.

Rubio is as good as Kidd was in his first 3 years, but not nearly as good as the Jason Kidd who made 6 straight All-NBA teams. He may or may not reach that level.

The optimistic point to Jason Kidd....1 player. The pessimists point to hundreds of players that didn't continue to develop.

I hope the majority are correct and I have nothing to worry about. Lord knows we need it.

Hicks123 wrote:The optimistic point to Jason Kidd....1 player. The pessimists point to hundreds of players that didn't continue to develop.

I hope the majority are correct and I have nothing to worry about. Lord knows we need it.

Well, look at Mike Conley for a more recent example. That's 2 players :)

The other thing is that Rubio is already an effective player. We're not talking about a Derrick Williams/Wes Johnson/Jonny Flynn scenario where mediocrity spans multiple years, yet people keep saying, "But there's still a chance!".

Rubio put up career bests in a number of categories this year and is a middle-of-the pack to upper third starting NBA PG. That's pretty damn good. He doesn't need to improve by leaps and bounds to be a great starting PG.

If Rubio turns into Jason Kidd in his prime Ricky won't be the problem.

Hicks123 wrote:The optimistic point to Jason Kidd....1 player. The pessimists point to hundreds of players that didn't continue to develop.

I hope the majority are correct and I have nothing to worry about. Lord knows we need it.

Find me another point guard that plays LIKE Ricky does now and didn't get better. There's a reason Jason Kidd is the go to (Rondo too sometimes) comparison because not many of them see the floor and play the game like they do. If you have a list of PGs that were as talented as Ricky, produced like he's produced and still never improved... I'll wait for the names you give me.

There arent many players in the history of the league that have shot the rock as poorly as Ricky has. So its understandable to be hesitant about his ability to turn into a franchise player. Not saying he cant but let me flip this around. Make a list of pgs that shot as poorly and turned into great players. Ill wait for that list too.
It should be understood at this point that defenses have no respect for Rickys ability to shoot the ball. So with that being said hes been shooting the ball basically wide open and still hasnt made marketed improvements.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsav01.html
I thought of him because teams dared him to shoot in the playoffs. I believe he made them pay throughout which was significant to the first title the Spurs won.

I don't see Ricky as a "franchise player" mostly because i think there are very few of those guys in the league at any given time. I was high on him I didn't know if I ever thought he was becasue of the way he plays. Ricky and Love need each other and then they also need a wing that can create for themselves and others just the right amount. The right guy could even be a 6th man type that plays in the clutch. Really if you look back its very similar to KG and Marbury. They were the perfect tandem they needed each other they would have played off each other perfectly for years but Marbury went one way and KG went through a bunch of PGs with the Wolves and was a healthy Cassell away from having a pretty good shot at a title. What could have been...

We all know Ricky has to be better as a scoring threat, but lets see what he can do coming off a completely healthy season. He hasn't had that is a few years. So much of your shot has to do with your lower body and the last 2 years for Ricky with the knee injury probably hasn't helped. The year before Ricky was drafted he had a wrist issue. I am not excusing Ricky's poor offensive game, but Adelman had some pretty high praise for Ricky in his retirement press conference which I think is something to consider. I think we need another year to see what Ricky is or isn't. Remember the guy is still 23 and will turn 24 next October. He isn't super young but he is pretty young still with some legit room to grow.

Keep in mind 2 starting PGs (Burke and Jennings) this year shot WORSE from the floor than Rubio and they are scoring PGs, but neither guy got ripped as much for his shooting or awfulness doing it as Rubio which makes me laugh. Are they better scorers than Rubio? Yeah they have more skills, but do you call taking poor shots becasue you can get them up a skill? That being said Rubio has 2 scoring skills that are pretty good. My guess is set 3 point shots which is fine and drawing fouls. Other than that my guess is that he sucks and needs significant improvement. Like Q said Ricky doesn't have to improve alot to become a pretty good player becasue of what he already brings.

Camden wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:The optimistic point to Jason Kidd....1 player. The pessimists point to hundreds of players that didn't continue to develop.

I hope the majority are correct and I have nothing to worry about. Lord knows we need it.

Find me another point guard that plays LIKE Ricky does now and didn't get better. There's a reason Jason Kidd is the go to (Rondo too sometimes) comparison because not many of them see the floor and play the game like they do. If you have a list of PGs that were as talented as Ricky, produced like he's produced and still never improved... I'll wait for the names you give me.

Jamaal Tinsley, Brevin Knight, even Nate McMillian

monsterpile wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsav01.html
I thought of him because teams dared him to shoot in the playoffs. I believe he made them pay throughout which was significant to the first title the Spurs won.

I don't see Ricky as a "franchise player" mostly because i think there are very few of those guys in the league at any given time. I was high on him I didn't know if I ever thought he was becasue of the way he plays. Ricky and Love need each other and then they also need a wing that can create for themselves and others just the right amount. The right guy could even be a 6th man type that plays in the clutch. Really if you look back its very similar to KG and Marbury. They were the perfect tandem they needed each other they would have played off each other perfectly for years but Marbury went one way and KG went through a bunch of PGs with the Wolves and was a healthy Cassell away from having a pretty good shot at a title. What could have been...

We all know Ricky has to be better as a scoring threat, but lets see what he can do coming off a completely healthy season. He hasn't had that is a few years. So much of your shot has to do with your lower body and the last 2 years for Ricky with the knee injury probably hasn't helped. The year before Ricky was drafted he had a wrist issue. I am not excusing Ricky's poor offensive game, but Adelman had some pretty high praise for Ricky in his retirement press conference which I think is something to consider. I think we need another year to see what Ricky is or isn't. Remember the guy is still 23 and will turn 24 next October. He isn't super young but he is pretty young still with some legit room to grow.

Keep in mind 2 starting PGs (Burke and Jennings) this year shot WORSE from the floor than Rubio and they are scoring PGs, but neither guy got ripped as much for his shooting or awfulness doing it as Rubio which makes me laugh. Are they better scorers than Rubio? Yeah they have more skills, but do you call taking poor shots becasue you can get them up a skill? That being said Rubio has 2 scoring skills that are pretty good. My guess is set 3 point shots which is fine and drawing fouls. Other than that my guess is that he sucks and needs significant improvement. Like Q said Ricky doesn't have to improve alot to become a pretty good player becasue of what he already brings.

If we're still holding out hope for Rubio after however many years of professional ball then surely Burke will improve after only on year.
I believe Ricky has the skills to always have a job somewhere in the NBA but the Wolves need more than serviceable from him.