Minnesota Sports Forum

The Rage Monster wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

The Rage Monster wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

The Rage Monster wrote:Love isn't the problem but he's not the solution to our problems either. Yes he can put up great offensive number and carry a team for stretches (while he's hot) he can't carry a team in the long run because he doesn't impact both ends of the court. Most people consider Love a star but what other top 10 player hasn't been able to carry his team to the playoffs?

This is a load of crap. There is a 17 point per 100 possession swing when Love sits on the bench. That is huge. He IS carrying this team. How much more can the man do?

I remember when KG was here the issue was that he wasn't an alpha dog scorer that could close out games, yet defensively he was brilliant. No one is perfect - except for may be Lebron and Jordan.

It's the front office and coach's responsibility to surround a player like Love with the right complimentary pieces. So far, the various regimes have failed to do this, although I do think we're closer now than we were two years ago.

I would like him to carry the team to the playoffs, as I said name another top 10 player who is unable to carry his team to the playoffs? KG brought us to the playoffs almost every year, Love is going to be 0-5 with arguably better players around him. The difference is KG was a complete player, he played brilliant defensive and while he wasn't a closer he scored over 20 a game, Love averages maybe 3-4 more ppg than KG but doesn't play defense anywhere near the level of KG.

I'll name two from this season alone: Anthony Davis and Carmello Anthony.

I also consider Stephen Curry a top 10 player, but it's certainly not his lock down defense that is carrying the Warriors to the playoffs. It's the fact that he's brilliant offensively while also being surrounded by complimentary players who are good at defense - like Iguodala and Bogut.

Love can very easily fit into an elite defensive unit; it's just that he's not going to be the guy that anchors it. There are plenty of other Top 10 players who are in a similar situation - most just have a better supporting cast.

I believe Anthony has gotten his team to the playoffs every year he's been in the league so that's a poor example, plus I wouldn't count the knicks out yet. Davis, maybe but this is only his 2nd season plus he's currently just outside of my top 10.

The difference between Curry and Love is that Curry is a PG. The easiest shot is a layup or a dunk so good defense starts on the inside and works outward. This is why PF's and C's are so important to good defenses, those are generally the 2 positions that can stop all 5 positions from scoring around the rim. As you said Love is incapable of being an anchor defensively but that's not what I'm asking for. All I want is effort from him, guards and wings drive to the rim how about actually challenging their shots, his ole help D does nothing for me.

Don't confuse my criticism of Love as me thinking our front office has done a good job putting a supporting cast around him.

So now there are all sorts of caveats and qualifiers to your challenge of naming top 10 players that haven't carried their teams to the playoffs? I see.

Zach Randolph, who for years was maligned for his defense, has been the starting PF for a top 10 defensive team for going on 4 consecutive seasons. He hasn't suddenly become a great defender. It's just that the other players and coaching have changed around him.

q... add Carlos Boozer to that mix.

He's a very poor defender who can still be part of a very good system.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:q... add Carlos Boozer to that mix.

He's a very poor defender who can still be part of a very good system.

Another great example Abe. In the Randolph/Boozer examples, both play next to very good defensive Centers.

But how about this doozy: The starting C-PF combination of Al Jefferson and Josh McRoberts anchor the #6 defense in the NBA. Yes, the same Big Al that never had Minnesota or Utah ranked higher than 20th in defensive efficiency as their starting Center is now on the 6th best defensive team in the NBA.

So anyone that states that one MUST have an elite C-PF defensive combination is simply wrong. And while I think it's helpful to have at least one of those positions manned by a solid defensive type, Charlotte demonstrates you don't even need that to be a great defense.

Q12543 wrote:

The Rage Monster wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

The Rage Monster wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

The Rage Monster wrote:Love isn't the problem but he's not the solution to our problems either. Yes he can put up great offensive number and carry a team for stretches (while he's hot) he can't carry a team in the long run because he doesn't impact both ends of the court. Most people consider Love a star but what other top 10 player hasn't been able to carry his team to the playoffs?

This is a load of crap. There is a 17 point per 100 possession swing when Love sits on the bench. That is huge. He IS carrying this team. How much more can the man do?

I remember when KG was here the issue was that he wasn't an alpha dog scorer that could close out games, yet defensively he was brilliant. No one is perfect - except for may be Lebron and Jordan.

It's the front office and coach's responsibility to surround a player like Love with the right complimentary pieces. So far, the various regimes have failed to do this, although I do think we're closer now than we were two years ago.

I would like him to carry the team to the playoffs, as I said name another top 10 player who is unable to carry his team to the playoffs? KG brought us to the playoffs almost every year, Love is going to be 0-5 with arguably better players around him. The difference is KG was a complete player, he played brilliant defensive and while he wasn't a closer he scored over 20 a game, Love averages maybe 3-4 more ppg than KG but doesn't play defense anywhere near the level of KG.

I'll name two from this season alone: Anthony Davis and Carmello Anthony.

I also consider Stephen Curry a top 10 player, but it's certainly not his lock down defense that is carrying the Warriors to the playoffs. It's the fact that he's brilliant offensively while also being surrounded by complimentary players who are good at defense - like Iguodala and Bogut.

Love can very easily fit into an elite defensive unit; it's just that he's not going to be the guy that anchors it. There are plenty of other Top 10 players who are in a similar situation - most just have a better supporting cast.

I believe Anthony has gotten his team to the playoffs every year he's been in the league so that's a poor example, plus I wouldn't count the knicks out yet. Davis, maybe but this is only his 2nd season plus he's currently just outside of my top 10.

The difference between Curry and Love is that Curry is a PG. The easiest shot is a layup or a dunk so good defense starts on the inside and works outward. This is why PF's and C's are so important to good defenses, those are generally the 2 positions that can stop all 5 positions from scoring around the rim. As you said Love is incapable of being an anchor defensively but that's not what I'm asking for. All I want is effort from him, guards and wings drive to the rim how about actually challenging their shots, his ole help D does nothing for me.

Don't confuse my criticism of Love as me thinking our front office has done a good job putting a supporting cast around him.

So now there are all sorts of caveats and qualifiers to your challenge of naming top 10 players that haven't carried their teams to the playoffs? I see.

Zach Randolph, who for years was maligned for his defense, has been the starting PF for a top 10 defensive team for going on 4 consecutive seasons. He hasn't suddenly become a great defender. It's just that the other players and coaching have changed around him.

I'm not sure what caveats and qualifiers you're seeing? The fact is Melo HAS carried his team to the playoffs for 10 straight seasons and this season he just might do it again, the knicks are on a 5 game win streak while I believe the hawks have only won 2 of their last 16. Another fact, this is only Davis' 2nd season. In my opinion he is a top 10 talent but not a top 10 player yet due to him not having enough experience. In my opinion 10 players ahead of him in no particular order would be: Lebron, KD, CP3, Love, Melo, Griffin, Paul George, Westbrook, Curry, and Parker.

I don't think I ever said Love couldn't be part of a good defensive team so I'm not sure where that's coming from, I've been talking about our actual team. I don't think Boozer or ZBo sniff the top 10 so I wouldn't old them to the same standard but for the sake of your argument let's pretend they're equal to Love. You nailed it in your last post by saying they play next to very good defensive centers. We have Pek, or a center no where near the defense of Noah or Gasol, to make up for that difference Love's D would need to better. Big Al is better defensively than either Pek or Love, not that blocks are the only important sign of defense but Big Al does have more blocks than both Pek and Love combined.