FNG wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:02 am
I'm the lone vote for keeping Rudy and KAT and letting Naz go. I think we saw the kind of rim protection we can now have...when was the last time Jokic went 8 for 29? And while I love Naz, his porous defense makes him not worth the contract he will command...I'd rather go forward with a cheaper option like Garza.
Ya it’s hard to do this without knowing the details. How much is Naz going to get on the open market, what can the wolves get for Kat and/or Gobert.
Next year the wolves are not in cap hell so they can bring back Naz and not be over the lux tax. Next offseason a decision would more than likely need to be made. I do think we saw in this series though we need a spark plug off the bench and I don’t know how we get that without bringing Naz back.
I’m in the boat of bringing Naz back just for the asset of Naz (not sure his value around the league, maybe 3 seconds like Rui?)
Im on the trade KAT train, but would be fine to run it back. Hes a perfect candidate for a delusional team that thinks they’re one move away (ahem Knicks). Gobert is an overpaid glue guy, but he plays that role well. I want a team that can play D. There is no chance on earth we are that with KAT as the primary big. I also want Naz to be signed. He is legitimately the best candidate for a development story in franchise history, it would be a shame to get rid of him.
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:30 am
Im on the trade KAT train, but would be fine to run it back. Hes a perfect candidate for a delusional team that thinks they’re one move away (ahem Knicks). Gobert is an overpaid glue guy, but he plays that role well. I want a team that can play D. There is no chance on earth we are that with KAT as the primary big. I also want Naz to be signed. He is legitimately the best candidate for a development story in franchise history, it would be a shame to get rid of him.
That’s been the issue all year. When Rudy is on the floor they are a great defensive team but bad offensive team. When Rudy is off the floor and Kat and Naz are on the floor at center they are a great offensive team but bad defensive team.
Statistically speaking the Kat/gobert pairing was one of the best pairing defensively in the regular season but terrible on offense. In the playoffs that pairing was actually good offensively but terrible defensively (I’m not sure how much game 1 really skewed those defensive numbers)
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:30 am
Im on the trade KAT train, but would be fine to run it back. Hes a perfect candidate for a delusional team that thinks they’re one move away (ahem Knicks). Gobert is an overpaid glue guy, but he plays that role well. I want a team that can play D. There is no chance on earth we are that with KAT as the primary big. I also want Naz to be signed. He is legitimately the best candidate for a development story in franchise history, it would be a shame to get rid of him.
That’s been the issue all year. When Rudy is on the floor they are a great defensive team but bad offensive team. When Rudy is off the floor and Kat and Naz are on the floor at center they are a great offensive team but bad defensive team.
Statistically speaking the Kat/gobert pairing was one of the best pairing defensively in the regular season but terrible on offense. In the playoffs that pairing was actually good offensively but terrible defensively (I’m not sure how much game 1 really skewed those defensive numbers)
I think the KAT/Gobert pairing can get better. I also think the assets we could get for KAT around this year’s team could give us some unique roster balance with the right deal.
I'm as big on defense as anybody, but I don't think some realize just how good NAZ is on offense. And he's going to get better with more court time. We need a guy like that who can come off the bench and get instant buckets. If he goes somewhere else I think you will see him average 20 ppg.
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:50 pm
I'm as big on defense as anybody, but I don't think some realize just how good NAZ is on offense. And he's going to get better with more court time. We need a guy like that who can come off the bench and get instant buckets. If he goes somewhere else I think you will see him average 20 ppg.
I think everyone is fine with keeping Naz provided that the cost is reasonable. You are correct in that he could continue to keep getting better. Naz is only 23, so he would fit into a nice young core of Edwards (21) and McDaniels (22). I don't think anyone would have a problem if he's still here next season and beyond so long as his next contract doesn't become an issue.
I think the concern some of us have is that he's going to cash in big on this past season. What do we have to give up if we pay Naz? Could we get similar scoring for a lot less money somewhere else? IDK. This is why TC gets paid the big bucks. I honestly thought Naz would barely play once KAT came back. But I was dead wrong about that. So who knows how this will all shake out.
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:30 am
Im on the trade KAT train, but would be fine to run it back. Hes a perfect candidate for a delusional team that thinks they’re one move away (ahem Knicks). Gobert is an overpaid glue guy, but he plays that role well. I want a team that can play D. There is no chance on earth we are that with KAT as the primary big. I also want Naz to be signed. He is legitimately the best candidate for a development story in franchise history, it would be a shame to get rid of him.
That’s been the issue all year. When Rudy is on the floor they are a great defensive team but bad offensive team. When Rudy is off the floor and Kat and Naz are on the floor at center they are a great offensive team but bad defensive team.
Statistically speaking the Kat/gobert pairing was one of the best pairing defensively in the regular season but terrible on offense. In the playoffs that pairing was actually good offensively but terrible defensively (I’m not sure how much game 1 really skewed those defensive numbers)
Does playing Denver and Jokic cause the defensive numbers to drop though? Being a one seed they are quite a bit better then avg.
Tough to answer a poll like this without knowing what the return for KAT or Rudy would be or what Naz's salary would be.
Even though I think there's a real chance the pairing of Rudy and KAT might never work, I'm leaning towards voting to keep both for a couple reasons. First, I suspect the return for either KAT or Rudy would be really low. Second, I don't think we know for sure that they absolutely can't work together. They were at least solid together, and I think an unusual pairing like that needs some time to figure out if it can work (there are plenty of examples of new teammates that didn't work at first but eventually got better). It's a shame KAT's injury robbed us of more time to try to figure it out this year, but without that extra time, I'm just not confident enough that this pairing is so doomed we have to dump one or both of them at what would likely be a significant loss of value. Finally, I do think there is still a halfway-decent chance these guys end up able to work it out. It's an "unknown" future and not an option I like, but it feels better than what is the likely more "knowable" future of trading one of them for a big drop in value. Their salaries are ridiculous, but remember the cap is likely to go way up in a year or so, so it might not be so terrible, and presumably the new ownership will be willing to go into the tax.
As for Naz, man, that's tough. He's a really good offensive player, and a not-very-good defensive one. He is a big in terms of size, but he really does play more like a wing offensively, so I do think the overlap with KAT and Gobert is not quite so terrible. I guess because of the likely-to-rise cap, signing him to a contract would be more likely to look fairly reasonable in the future, which would make sure he's at least tradeable. I think getting a good backup PG with size is a more pressing priority, but I don't know how signing Naz might affect that objective. All things considered, I guess I'd lean toward bringing him back too. If his agent demands a really high salary though, you gotta say no.
It's not a vote I'm super happy with. But sometimes you just have to vote for the least bad option, and I think voting to keep all three (at least until next trade deadline) is an example of that.
SameOldNudityDrew wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:59 pm
Tough to answer a poll like this without knowing what the return for KAT or Rudy would be or what Naz's salary would be.
Even though I think there's a real chance the pairing of Rudy and KAT might never work, I'm leaning towards voting to keep both for a couple reasons. First, I suspect the return for either KAT or Rudy would be really low. Second, I don't think we know for sure that they absolutely can't work together. They were at least solid together, and I think an unusual pairing like that needs some time to figure out if it can work (there are plenty of examples of new teammates that didn't work at first but eventually got better). It's a shame KAT's injury robbed us of more time to try to figure it out this year, but without that extra time, I'm just not confident enough that this pairing is so doomed we have to dump one or both of them at what would likely be a significant loss of value. Finally, I do think there is still a halfway-decent chance these guys end up able to work it out. It's an "unknown" future and not an option I like, but it feels better than what is the likely more "knowable" future of trading one of them for a big drop in value. Their salaries are ridiculous, but remember the cap is likely to go way up in a year or so, so it might not be so terrible, and presumably the new ownership will be willing to go into the tax.
As for Naz, man, that's tough. He's a really good offensive player, and a not-very-good defensive one. He is a big in terms of size, but he really does play more like a wing offensively, so I do think the overlap with KAT and Gobert is not quite so terrible. I guess because of the likely-to-rise cap, signing him to a contract would be more likely to look fairly reasonable in the future, which would make sure he's at least tradeable. I think getting a good backup PG with size is a more pressing priority, but I don't know how signing Naz might affect that objective. All things considered, I guess I'd lean toward bringing him back too. If his agent demands a really high salary though, you gotta say no.
It's not a vote I'm super happy with. But sometimes you just have to vote for the least bad option, and I think voting to keep all three (at least until next trade deadline) is an example of that.
Agree Drew, I'd run it back based on an unknowable market for KAT and Rudy. I mean, if we could get another stud ball-handling guard to help Ant out, I might be down with a trade. This team desperately needs another guy that can break down a defense off the dribble and either score or make a play for someone else (while also not being a complete sieve on defense).
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:30 am
Im on the trade KAT train, but would be fine to run it back. Hes a perfect candidate for a delusional team that thinks they’re one move away (ahem Knicks). Gobert is an overpaid glue guy, but he plays that role well. I want a team that can play D. There is no chance on earth we are that with KAT as the primary big. I also want Naz to be signed. He is legitimately the best candidate for a development story in franchise history, it would be a shame to get rid of him.
If the Knicks entertain the idea of him, it’s because they wanna dump off some crap they don’t want to you. If KAT drives you to drink, Randle and Barrett will lead you to the needle.
