Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:11 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:09 am Good discussion here....

Keep in mind that Rudy does two things to help KAT defensively. First, he is indeed the rising tide that lifts all boats defensively. When you have a Center like him protecting the rim, it changes the way others guard their guys.

Second, it allows KAT to slide to the 4. Remember that during the Butler phase, KAT was still the Center. Yes, we had Taj Gibson, but he was more of an old-school 4 than a pure 5, as he wasn't all that big. A number of us have been saying for years that getting a defensive-minded Center to play next to KAT for at least half the game (with KAT also playing the 5 too) would help take a lot off of KAT's plate. Obviously, the front office was thinking the same thing and went all-in by getting the best defensive 5 in the business.

Another loss for Abe here...

I thought Towns' best value was by doing things other centers could not do. This has been a fun, remarkable turnaround.

I still contend I've been more right than wrong over the years as the longest tenured Wolves basketball fan*, but sometimes, it feels great to be wrong.


*obviously, I'm not the only "longest tenured Wolves fan"... but I can still remember the disappointment of Rick Mahorn snubbing the franchise and the pick of Pooh being quite "meh."

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:13 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:11 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:09 am Good discussion here....

Keep in mind that Rudy does two things to help KAT defensively. First, he is indeed the rising tide that lifts all boats defensively. When you have a Center like him protecting the rim, it changes the way others guard their guys.

Second, it allows KAT to slide to the 4. Remember that during the Butler phase, KAT was still the Center. Yes, we had Taj Gibson, but he was more of an old-school 4 than a pure 5, as he wasn't all that big. A number of us have been saying for years that getting a defensive-minded Center to play next to KAT for at least half the game (with KAT also playing the 5 too) would help take a lot off of KAT's plate. Obviously, the front office was thinking the same thing and went all-in by getting the best defensive 5 in the business.

Another loss for Abe here...

I thought Towns' best value was by doing things other centers could not do. This has been a fun, remarkable turnaround.

I still contend I've been more right than wrong over the years as the longest tenured Wolves basketball fan*, but sometimes, it feels great to be wrong.


*obviously, I'm not the only "longest tenured Wolves fan"... but I can still remember the disappointment of Rick Mahorn snubbing the franchise and the pick of Pooh being quite "meh."

What really intrigues me on the offensive side is the KAT/Rudy pick and roll from the top of the key. We saw KAT throw a couple of pinpoint perfect lob passes to Rudy for dunks in the last game against Charlotte off this play. Would love to see them keep refining this action in the regular season and then see if they can profit from it when teams go small and these two can just play over the top of the defense with KAT's shooting or passing. I like it much better than passes to Rudy in the post, which get fumbled or easily stripped away 50% of the time.

(I continue to be amazed at how secure Rudy's hands are on defensive rebounds and well thrown lobs, but the second an offensive rebound comes his way, his hands and fingers immediately fuse together and become paddles that are only capable of slapping at the ball).

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:32 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:10 pm

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:45 pm

I won't discount that as a possibility. But I will point out that didn't work with Thibs and Butler. Both brought a defense culture and I don't recall anyone writing about KAT's defense at that time. That's why I think Gobert is helping him. As FNG pointed out, it's nice to know when you get beat, the Stifle Tower has your back.

I think for the first time in Town career he is in a place where he doesn’t have to be THE guy both in his mind and in reality. Edward’s ascended last year and this year has taken another leap. Gobert is a big part of the team and is back to being a massive impact player in the league. Conley is a good vet leader at PG. Finch is in his 4 season with Towns. Connelly is the new head guy but quite a few people including Gupta stuck around. Connelly is a guy that’s been around so he probably commands some respect when he talks. Naz has ascended too so Towns even has another guy that can step into a real role if something happens to him. I think Towns has always been a team first guy (even if it doesn’t seem that way from some of his actions) but now he can actually be part of a team and just play ball. Hopefully he can stay healthy that’s been the biggest issue for him for a couple years when it was such a big positive early on in his career.

I don't disagree with your take. But I think that was part of the frustration with KAT for fans (and certainly Jimmy Butler). When you are drafted #1 overall and paid max money, the expectation is that you ARE the guy. If you end up being #2 or #3 instead of the man, then that's a different income bracket on most teams.

Again - I'm not taking anything away from the fact that he's a very good player and I'm happy to have him. I just thought he'd keep getting better each year and put this team over the top practically by himself. His first six years produced ONE winning season for the franchise. And that was the Butler year. He was the face of the franchise for six years of mostly terrible teams. Was it all his fault? Absolutely not. But we all thought adding #1 overall pick would have a greater impact. Anthony Edwards has had ONE losing season. Is that all because of him? Nope. But it's hard to find fault with what he's done because we winning.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:38 pm Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

thedoper wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:34 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:38 pm Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

thedoper wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:34 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:38 pm Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:43 am

thedoper wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:34 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:38 pm Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

I think KAT recognizes his weaknesses. He just has a hard time reigning in his emotions. It’s not an awareness issue; it’s a self-control/discipline issue in my view. He has certainly recognized his defensive weakness as he has dramatically improved his defense, going from bad to OK two seasons ago and now defending really well. So far this season he has also dramatically reduced his whining on the court and he’s making fewer boneheaded fouls, although he still has work to do in that area.

Wiggins has a more fundamental weakness - i.e., a lack of inner drive, passion or competitiveness. His play elevated when surrounded by multiple high-drive players with championship pedigrees, but that effect was only temporary. Andrew’s problem has never been self-awareness. His problem has been self-motivation. He and KAT are very different. KAT has loads of competitive drive, but he has lacked the discipline to control it. Wiggins lacks the drive and that’s not fixable, at least not on a sustainable basis.

LaVine is an enigma to me. He’s probably the one of the three who is completely lacking in self-awareness. He seems to be a physically gifted but low IQ player who just can’t learn. KAT doesn’t have a particularly high basketball IQ, but it’s nowhere near as low as LaVine’s in my view.

The good news is that KAT’s deficiencies are the ones that can be fixed by the right culture. You can’t develop competitive drive later in life, but you can develop self-discipline and learn how to control and channel your emotions productively. We’re finally seeing that with KAT now that we have a culture of expectations and accountability in the Wolves organization. I’ll also add that all players look a lot better when surrounded by talent as we saw watching Wiggins after he was traded to the Warriors. As I’ve mentioned before, KAT has rarely had even one other all-star level player on the roster with him. When he has, the Wolves have made the playoffs. This season, he has one other all-star level player (Ant) and a defensive player of the year candidate (Rudy) and we’re seeing the results.

KAT’s never going to be Embiid or Jokic. But he’s the next tier down from those two and not that far down now that he’s playing so well defensively. If the Wolves continue on the path they’re on, KAT will be a critical part of a championship run this season and perhaps multiple seasons. I don’t see the same in cards for LaVine or Wiggins at any point in the future. I’m glad KAT’s the one among the three we kept. .