Minnesota Sports Forum

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:30 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:04 am I think it would be silly to fire Finch now. You only fire him if you vastly overrated this team. We’ve sat atop the Western Conference most of the season but I don’t believe this team’s talent comes close to matching the team’s current place in the standings. Given the talent and mix on this team, Finch should be credited with getting them to overachieve after a 42-win season last year. The way this team has been playing the past few weeks provides some insight into this team’s true capabilities.

KAT will always be KAT no matter who’s coaching him. Ant and Jaden remain the key challenges for Finch. Can he get Ant to mature in his decision-making? Can he get Jaden to take the next step offensively and on the boards? Of course, a lot of that is on Ant and Jaden, but part of Finch’s job is to foster their development. Otherwise, It’s up to the front office to get more offensive firepower, especially three-point shooting, onto the roster and into the rotation. But that will be particularly difficult if the team is over the 2nd apron, which will happen unless the organization trades, KAT, Rudy, Jaden or Naz (they’re not going to trade Ant).

Lip, you make some good points here. Where I would quarrel with you is that a half season is a pretty good sample size. You don't play .700 ball for this long, especially with the schedule we've had, and not be a very good basketball team. Sure we can improve our offense, and I expect we will make a move or two that will help. KAT and Ant are two of the best offensive players in the league. The only thing keeping NAZ from scoring 20ppg is minutes. Jaden shoots 52/38, I'm not sure what more you want from him. There is only one ball. NAW has developed into a very good 3 & D wing. This team is damn good and with a little good fortune and better smarts, we would have the best record in the league right now.

I sense much of your pessimism is still rooted in the trade for Rudy. I know you hated that move and I think it taints your opinion of this group. I think that trade looks better by the week and I'm not sure where we would be without it. I don't know if we can finish first in the West, but we have a shot for sure. Our biggest impediment might be the age and experience level of our young guys, who we count on a great deal. We're just going to have to see how it goes, and whether we can win some big games like next Monday night in OKC.

Cool - I don’t think we disagree much on this. I just think Finch deserves a lot of credit for this team’s success to date and believe it would be ridiculous to fire him over the team’s recent struggles. I don’t think this team has been underachieving, which is the hallmark of a bad head coach. And while I’ll agree the team is talented, they were in my view overachieving when sitting atop the Western Conference. I don’t think the Rudy deal taints my view as I don’t think he’s responsible for the recent mediocrity of the team. It’s a team thing, not a Rudy thing and it’s a personnel thing not a head coach thing in my judgment. I still don’t like the Rudy trade because of what we gave up, but it’s clear to me that Rudy is playing great this season and his play is a huge part of the team’s success so far.

My issues remain: (1) lack of offensive firepower off the bench; and (2) the youth of two of our key players (Ant and Jaden). I’m not down on Jaden. I just believe he has far more upside that has not yet been tapped. I think you agree. I’m certainly not down on Ant either. I just think Ant can and needs to improve his decision-making and significantly reduce his turnovers. Again, I suspect you agree. So when I say I don’t think this team is a true championship contender this season it’s mainly because of those two things, not because of Rudy and not because of Finch. So just as I wouldn’t fire Finch this season, I would not trade Rudy.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:43 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:30 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:04 am I think it would be silly to fire Finch now. You only fire him if you vastly overrated this team. We’ve sat atop the Western Conference most of the season but I don’t believe this team’s talent comes close to matching the team’s current place in the standings. Given the talent and mix on this team, Finch should be credited with getting them to overachieve after a 42-win season last year. The way this team has been playing the past few weeks provides some insight into this team’s true capabilities.

KAT will always be KAT no matter who’s coaching him. Ant and Jaden remain the key challenges for Finch. Can he get Ant to mature in his decision-making? Can he get Jaden to take the next step offensively and on the boards? Of course, a lot of that is on Ant and Jaden, but part of Finch’s job is to foster their development. Otherwise, It’s up to the front office to get more offensive firepower, especially three-point shooting, onto the roster and into the rotation. But that will be particularly difficult if the team is over the 2nd apron, which will happen unless the organization trades, KAT, Rudy, Jaden or Naz (they’re not going to trade Ant).

Lip, you make some good points here. Where I would quarrel with you is that a half season is a pretty good sample size. You don't play .700 ball for this long, especially with the schedule we've had, and not be a very good basketball team. Sure we can improve our offense, and I expect we will make a move or two that will help. KAT and Ant are two of the best offensive players in the league. The only thing keeping NAZ from scoring 20ppg is minutes. Jaden shoots 52/38, I'm not sure what more you want from him. There is only one ball. NAW has developed into a very good 3 & D wing. This team is damn good and with a little good fortune and better smarts, we would have the best record in the league right now.

I sense much of your pessimism is still rooted in the trade for Rudy. I know you hated that move and I think it taints your opinion of this group. I think that trade looks better by the week and I'm not sure where we would be without it. I don't know if we can finish first in the West, but we have a shot for sure. Our biggest impediment might be the age and experience level of our young guys, who we count on a great deal. We're just going to have to see how it goes, and whether we can win some big games like next Monday night in OKC.

Cool - I don’t think we disagree much on this. I just think Finch deserves a lot of credit for this team’s success to date and believe it would be ridiculous to fire him over the team’s recent struggles. I don’t think this team has been underachieving, which is the hallmark of a bad head coach. And while I’ll agree the team is talented, they were in my view overachieving when sitting atop the Western Conference. I don’t think the Rudy deal taints my view as I don’t think he’s responsible for the recent mediocrity of the team. It’s a team thing, not a Rudy thing and it’s a personnel thing not a head coach thing in my judgment. I still don’t like the Rudy trade because of what we gave up, but it’s clear to me that Rudy is playing great this season and his play is a huge part of the team’s success so far.

My issues remain: (1) lack of offensive firepower off the bench; and (2) the youth of two of our key players (Ant and Jaden). I’m not down on Jaden. I just believe he has far more upside that has not yet been tapped. I think you agree. I’m certainly not down on Ant either. I just think Ant can and needs to improve his decision-making and significantly reduce his turnovers. Again, I suspect you agree. So when I say I don’t think this team is a true championship contender this season it’s mainly because of those two things, not because of Rudy and not because of Finch. So just as I wouldn’t fire Finch this season, I would not trade Rudy.

I said in another thread that Finch is going to get some coach of the year consideration. I DID blame the Charlotte game on him and I believe that stance was justified. However, I'm not even considering the idea of getting rid of him. For the most part he has done a great job.

We're also on the same page regarding Jaden. He DOES have untapped offensive upside. I just don't know how he's going to develop it when his primary job is to be a spacer. It seems the only time he touches the ball is via a skip pass in the corner or when they run their weave out on top. Other than that he really isn't a part of the offense. One thing I would do for sure is get him some post up opportunities when he's matched up against smaller players which happens quite a bit.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:58 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:43 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:30 am
Lip, you make some good points here. Where I would quarrel with you is that a half season is a pretty good sample size. You don't play .700 ball for this long, especially with the schedule we've had, and not be a very good basketball team. Sure we can improve our offense, and I expect we will make a move or two that will help. KAT and Ant are two of the best offensive players in the league. The only thing keeping NAZ from scoring 20ppg is minutes. Jaden shoots 52/38, I'm not sure what more you want from him. There is only one ball. NAW has developed into a very good 3 & D wing. This team is damn good and with a little good fortune and better smarts, we would have the best record in the league right now.

I sense much of your pessimism is still rooted in the trade for Rudy. I know you hated that move and I think it taints your opinion of this group. I think that trade looks better by the week and I'm not sure where we would be without it. I don't know if we can finish first in the West, but we have a shot for sure. Our biggest impediment might be the age and experience level of our young guys, who we count on a great deal. We're just going to have to see how it goes, and whether we can win some big games like next Monday night in OKC.

Cool - I don’t think we disagree much on this. I just think Finch deserves a lot of credit for this team’s success to date and believe it would be ridiculous to fire him over the team’s recent struggles. I don’t think this team has been underachieving, which is the hallmark of a bad head coach. And while I’ll agree the team is talented, they were in my view overachieving when sitting atop the Western Conference. I don’t think the Rudy deal taints my view as I don’t think he’s responsible for the recent mediocrity of the team. It’s a team thing, not a Rudy thing and it’s a personnel thing not a head coach thing in my judgment. I still don’t like the Rudy trade because of what we gave up, but it’s clear to me that Rudy is playing great this season and his play is a huge part of the team’s success so far.

My issues remain: (1) lack of offensive firepower off the bench; and (2) the youth of two of our key players (Ant and Jaden). I’m not down on Jaden. I just believe he has far more upside that has not yet been tapped. I think you agree. I’m certainly not down on Ant either. I just think Ant can and needs to improve his decision-making and significantly reduce his turnovers. Again, I suspect you agree. So when I say I don’t think this team is a true championship contender this season it’s mainly because of those two things, not because of Rudy and not because of Finch. So just as I wouldn’t fire Finch this season, I would not trade Rudy.

I said in another thread that Finch is going to get some coach of the year consideration. I DID blame the Charlotte game on him and I believe that stance was justified. However, I'm not even considering the idea of getting rid of him. For the most part he has done a great job.

We're also on the same page regarding Jaden. He DOES have untapped offensive upside. I just don't know how he's going to develop it when his primary job is to be a spacer. It seems the only time he touches the ball is via a skip pass in the corner or when they run their weave out on top. Other than that he really isn't a part of the offense. One thing I would do for sure is get him some post up opportunities when he's matched up against smaller players which happens quite a bit.

I knew we were on the same page regarding Finch. My post was just responding to the question initiating the thread. Of course, like any other head coach, Finch has not been flawless and your critique of him in the Charlotte game was very fair a reasonable.

Regarding Jaden, I too wonder how he can be put in a position to develop and tap into what we both agree is major remaining offensive upside. You and I might disagree on what I believe is untapped rebounding potential. Given his length, I’d like to see him get more boards. That could help his offense, giving him opportunities to rebound and run with the ball. That’s what a guy named Scottie Pippen used to do quite a bit and I still see some Pippen in Jaden. Ultimately, I think Jaden’s opportunity to develop offensively is stifled by Rudy’s presence unless we were to move on from Ant (which won’t happen) or KAT (which is unlikely but could happen). Rudy’s presence limits space for Jaden to take advantage of his excellent cutting ability and it also stifles the post-up opportunities you mentioned. That’s not to say that the team would be better off without Rudy who has been a key to our success so far this season. I just think Jaden’s long-term offensive development would be better without Rudy or a player like him in the starting lineup. But that ship has sailed and the organization didn’t build the type of team I had in mind coming off the team’s success two years ago. I’m certainly not unhappy with being second in the Western Conference.