Kat

[Q-is-here]

Randles handle was too loose and he never saw the offside defender coming in to steal the ball from behind. That was at least a third of his turnovers.

Did Slo Mo even play this year? Just 25 games for Miami and 36 for GSW and didn't average 19 minutes a game for either team with only 2.2 assists per game. Not sure he is really as good as we all thought he was.

I'm not sure he was either. Finch relied on him because I think he didn't make bonehead mistakes and simply knew what to do. Now was he that good? I don't think so either, just reliable enough. In fact I for sure wanted his minutes reduced or to see him traded at the deadline that last year (because of his 3P shooting woes).

I'm not at all surprised to see his minutes dwindle on other squads though.

And while SloMo did contribute some important skills, let's face it. He was 8th man on the totem pole of minutes. Just like NAW was 8th man on the totem pole of minutes for this past year.

SloMo was one of these safety valves that Finch trusted. Remember how he'd sometimes have to pull the Jordan McLaughlin lever too? He's in the same category, but obviously deeper on the bench.

Coaches will overlook a player's limitations to a fault if that player knows what he's doing out there and can translate the coach's instructions into action. SloMo and McLaughlin hardly ever made unforced errors, but ultimately their limitations come back to bite you when you aspire to deep playoff runs.

[60WinTim]

I'm not sure he was either. Finch relied on him because I think he didn't make bonehead mistakes and simply knew what to do. Now was he that good? I don't think so either, just reliable enough. In fact I for sure wanted his minutes reduced or to see him traded at the deadline that last year (because of his 3P shooting woes).

I'm not at all surprised to see his minutes dwindle on other squads though.

And while SloMo did contribute some important skills, let's face it. He was 8th man on the totem pole of minutes. Just like NAW was 8th man on the totem pole of minutes for this past year.

SloMo was one of these safety valves that Finch trusted. Remember how he'd sometimes have to pull the Jordan McLaughlin lever too? He's in the same category, but obviously deeper on the bench.

Coaches will overlook a player's limitations to a fault if that player knows what he's doing out there and can translate the coach's instructions into action. SloMo and McLaughlin hardly ever made unforced errors, but ultimately their limitations come back to bite you when you aspire to deep playoff runs.

So you probably don't like my trade proposal, assuming Randle opts in and is an expiring contract. In that scenario, I re-sign NAZ to most likely be the starting PF, and trade Randle for Duncan Robinson and SloMo. The Wolves save a tiny bit of money. Robinson is a 20 mil expiring contract, but SloMo is signed for two more years at a little under 10 mil per year.

The Wolves clear a starting spot for NAZ and add a backup who knows the system and knows Rudy. Robinson's role in Miami has dwindled lately and they get out from under SloMo's last year of his contract. They have had interest in Randle before, and they have an opening with Butler's departure. They would secure Randle's Bird rights and have him for a one-year trial run before re-signing him next year.

[Monster]

And while SloMo did contribute some important skills, let's face it. He was 8th man on the totem pole of minutes. Just like NAW was 8th man on the totem pole of minutes for this past year.

SloMo was one of these safety valves that Finch trusted. Remember how he'd sometimes have to pull the Jordan McLaughlin lever too? He's in the same category, but obviously deeper on the bench.

Coaches will overlook a player's limitations to a fault if that player knows what he's doing out there and can translate the coach's instructions into action. SloMo and McLaughlin hardly ever made unforced errors, but ultimately their limitations come back to bite you when you aspire to deep playoff runs.

So you probably don't like my trade proposal, assuming Randle opts in and is an expiring contract. In that scenario, I re-sign NAZ to most likely be the starting PF, and trade Randle for Duncan Robinson and SloMo. The Wolves save a tiny bit of money. Robinson is a 20 mil expiring contract, but SloMo is signed for two more years at a little under 10 mil per year.

The Wolves clear a starting spot for NAZ and add a backup who knows the system and knows Rudy. Robinson's role in Miami has dwindled lately and they get out from under SloMo's last year of his contract. They have had interest in Randle before, and they have an opening with Butler's departure. They would secure Randle's Bird rights and have him for a one-year trial run before re-signing him next year.

Tim I had also thought what if Miami was still interested. I think Miami would need to kick in some sort of other asset but I don't know what that would be. A couple other things to consider. Anderson has no guaranteed money in year 3. Duncan Robinson actually has just under 10 million guaranteed for this season.

One of the reasons why Anderson was so valuable was his defense. You have a 6'9" guy that can operate as a true PG and defend PFs and some wings while kinda quarterbacking both phases of the game. I think he was a guy that helped the locker room both as a guy that was likeable but also had some edge to him too. He is a flawed unique player. Not every team is gonna have a good spot for him. Finch has flaws but there are some guys he has gotten good play out of and Anderson is one of those players. He still was decently effective last year overall.

[Monster]

Wait it's Towns fault that the Knicks lost to the Pacers?

It wasn't Bridges putting up something like Jaden McDaniels (playoff) level scoring?

It wasn't the lack of bench production compared to the Pacers? The Pacers had 3 players that scored more than the highest scoring Knicks bench player. Shamet was basically the only guard that was effective offensively. The Knicks played their bench the 2nd least only to Denver in the playoffs and also scored the 2nd least points. The disparity is pretty stark compared to other playoff teams and especially the conference finals teams and their bench shot 38.5 from the floor in the playoffs. Only 2 Knicks bench players scored more points in the playoffs than TSJ who played a whopping 57 minutes. Ben Shepard played almost 4 times as many minutes and scored 47 points which again would have been an easy 3rd place on the Knicks bench scoring.

It wasn't the Knicks losing the rebound and turnover stats and shot worse from the field and 3 than the Pacers?

I didn't watch all the series but I didn't see this massive targeting of Towns on defense. I did see Mitchell Robinson do some of his own silly fouls. I often forgot Bridges and/or annaoby where even on the floor. But yes it's Towns fault they didn't go farther. The guy basically put up 25 and 12 on reasonably good efficiency in the Pacers series and yeah it's him.

I don't get it. It seems to me like they need more depth.

Monster, Wild Wolf is more tuned in to the NY media than any of us, so he'll have to weigh in, but my observation is that KAT's defense is being thrown out there as a big reason for the Knicks losing. I don't expect that Bridges is getting a pass, but the fans also know he makes half of what KAT makes, and they know KAT will be making $61 million in a couple years! Expectations for him have to be much higher. And you needed to watch the series to see how relentlessly Indy targeted KAT in the pick and roll, knowing it was going to yield a wide open midrange shot every time...it was frankly sad to watch. KAT is a remarkable talent and might be the best shooting big in the game today, but I found myself whispering a silent prayer to TC often during this series for getting us out from under that ridiculous $61 million.

The Knicks gave up a lot of assets for Bridges arguably more than they did for Towns. He played like a role player in the playoffs and it sounds like his defense was kinda meh. They got him to be a really good 2-way player and it seemed like he played like a guy that's just a starter that you looks to upgrade after the playoffs are over. Bridges has one more bargain season at just under 25 million and then he is gonna get a raise. How big of a raise? Or maybe he will not actually be worth giving much of a raise? Either way that's not good for the Knicks.

I watched most of the 2nd half of at least 3 games of the Pacers series and similar amount or more of the Pistons series. Towns had a number of positive defensive plays in those instances I watched. We all know Towns isn't a defensive center but he was not bad previously guarding on the perimeter. Maybe that's part of why Thibs got fired. Bridges and OG not really killing it either might have been an issue. It's also worth noting that even though the Knicks got off to a hot start their team was thrown together last off-season too. Maybe another year and a little retooling and Thibs could have made them better. Maybe a new coach will do a better job of all that. We will see. I just remember watching the Pistons series and it felt like the Knicks weren't really much more talented and they should have been the more experienced team although Detroit wasn't all youth. Watching a pretty good chunk of that series it is not surprising that an even deeper team with more dynamic players coached buy a guy that's won a championship bested the Knicks.

[Lipoli390]

Wait it's Towns fault that the Knicks lost to the Pacers?

It wasn't Bridges putting up something like Jaden McDaniels (playoff) level scoring?

It wasn't the lack of bench production compared to the Pacers? The Pacers had 3 players that scored more than the highest scoring Knicks bench player. Shamet was basically the only guard that was effective offensively. The Knicks played their bench the 2nd least only to Denver in the playoffs and also scored the 2nd least points. The disparity is pretty stark compared to other playoff teams and especially the conference finals teams and their bench shot 38.5 from the floor in the playoffs. Only 2 Knicks bench players scored more points in the playoffs than TSJ who played a whopping 57 minutes. Ben Shepard played almost 4 times as many minutes and scored 47 points which again would have been an easy 3rd place on the Knicks bench scoring.

It wasn't the Knicks losing the rebound and turnover stats and shot worse from the field and 3 than the Pacers?

I didn't watch all the series but I didn't see this massive targeting of Towns on defense. I did see Mitchell Robinson do some of his own silly fouls. I often forgot Bridges and/or annaoby where even on the floor. But yes it's Towns fault they didn't go farther. The guy basically put up 25 and 12 on reasonably good efficiency in the Pacers series and yeah it's him.

I don't get it. It seems to me like they need more depth.

Monster, Wild Wolf is more tuned in to the NY media than any of us, so he'll have to weigh in, but my observation is that KAT's defense is being thrown out there as a big reason for the Knicks losing. I don't expect that Bridges is getting a pass, but the fans also know he makes half of what KAT makes, and they know KAT will be making $61 million in a couple years! Expectations for him have to be much higher. And you needed to watch the series to see how relentlessly Indy targeted KAT in the pick and roll, knowing it was going to yield a wide open midrange shot every time...it was frankly sad to watch. KAT is a remarkable talent and might be the best shooting big in the game today, but I found myself whispering a silent prayer to TC often during this series for getting us out from under that ridiculous $61 million.

The Knicks gave up a lot of assets for Bridges arguably more than they did for Towns. He played like a role player in the playoffs and it sounds like his defense was kinda meh. They got him to be a really good 2-way player and it seemed like he played like a guy that's just a starter that you looks to upgrade after the playoffs are over. Bridges has one more bargain season at just under 25 million and then he is gonna get a raise. How big of a raise? Or maybe he will not actually be worth giving much of a raise? Either way that's not good for the Knicks.

I watched most of the 2nd half of at least 3 games of the Pacers series and similar amount or more of the Pistons series. Towns had a number of positive defensive plays in those instances I watched. We all know Towns isn't a defensive center but he was not bad previously guarding on the perimeter. Maybe that's part of why Thibs got fired. Bridges and OG not really killing it either might have been an issue. It's also worth noting that even though the Knicks got off to a hot start their team was thrown together last off-season too. Maybe another year and a little retooling and Thibs could have made them better. Maybe a new coach will do a better job of all that. We will see. I just remember watching the Pistons series and it felt like the Knicks weren't really much more talented and they should have been the more experienced team although Detroit wasn't all youth. Watching a pretty good chunk of that series it is not surprising that an even deeper team with more dynamic players coached buy a guy that's won a championship bested the Knicks.

That’s a nice take, Monster. Again, it’s almost reflexive for fans to look for an individual scapegoat or two. Management often does that when they single out the head coach for firing. But in the end, it’s a team game and it’s the sum of the parts that determines a team’s fate. Certainly the individual parts, including the head coach, matter but as Kevin McHale once told a group of us at a season ticket holder meeting: “It’s not the five best players; it’s the five players who play best together.” Truth is, OKC is a better team than the Wolves and the Pacers are a better team than the Knicks. This season, with Towns instead of Julius and Donte, the Knicks won 51 games and advanced to the Conference Finals. Last season, the Knicks won 50 games and made it only as far as the Conference semifinals. So it’s a stretch to say Towns was the problem. He was enough to get them one more season victory and advance them an additional step in the playoffs but he wasn’t enough to get them to the Finals. Thibs was Thibs. Would they have made it to the Finals with Malone as their head coach? Who knows but I doubt it. Indiana was the better team.

[60WinTim]

SloMo was one of these safety valves that Finch trusted. Remember how he'd sometimes have to pull the Jordan McLaughlin lever too? He's in the same category, but obviously deeper on the bench.

Coaches will overlook a player's limitations to a fault if that player knows what he's doing out there and can translate the coach's instructions into action. SloMo and McLaughlin hardly ever made unforced errors, but ultimately their limitations come back to bite you when you aspire to deep playoff runs.

So you probably don't like my trade proposal, assuming Randle opts in and is an expiring contract. In that scenario, I re-sign NAZ to most likely be the starting PF, and trade Randle for Duncan Robinson and SloMo. The Wolves save a tiny bit of money. Robinson is a 20 mil expiring contract, but SloMo is signed for two more years at a little under 10 mil per year.

The Wolves clear a starting spot for NAZ and add a backup who knows the system and knows Rudy. Robinson's role in Miami has dwindled lately and they get out from under SloMo's last year of his contract. They have had interest in Randle before, and they have an opening with Butler's departure. They would secure Randle's Bird rights and have him for a one-year trial run before re-signing him next year.

Tim I had also thought what if Miami was still interested. I think Miami would need to kick in some sort of other asset but I don't know what that would be. A couple other things to consider. Anderson has no guaranteed money in year 3. Duncan Robinson actually has just under 10 million guaranteed for this season.

One of the reasons why Anderson was so valuable was his defense. You have a 6'9" guy that can operate as a true PG and defend PFs and some wings while kinda quarterbacking both phases of the game. I think he was a guy that helped the locker room both as a guy that was likeable but also had some edge to him too. He is a flawed unique player. Not every team is gonna have a good spot for him. Finch has flaws but there are some guys he has gotten good play out of and Anderson is one of those players. He still was decently effective last year overall.

Thanks, Monster! I had forgotten that SloMo's final year was not guaranteed. But I did not realize that Duncan was only a partial guarantee this coming year! You said Miami might need to kick in an extra asset, but that 10 mil of cap relief might be the asset the Wolves need, potentially giving them the full MLE to use! I see Duncan's partial guarantee becomes fully guaranteed on July 8th, so any sort of move would need to happen rather quickly...

[FNG]

Monster, Wild Wolf is more tuned in to the NY media than any of us, so he'll have to weigh in, but my observation is that KAT's defense is being thrown out there as a big reason for the Knicks losing. I don't expect that Bridges is getting a pass, but the fans also know he makes half of what KAT makes, and they know KAT will be making $61 million in a couple years! Expectations for him have to be much higher. And you needed to watch the series to see how relentlessly Indy targeted KAT in the pick and roll, knowing it was going to yield a wide open midrange shot every time...it was frankly sad to watch. KAT is a remarkable talent and might be the best shooting big in the game today, but I found myself whispering a silent prayer to TC often during this series for getting us out from under that ridiculous $61 million.

The Knicks gave up a lot of assets for Bridges arguably more than they did for Towns. He played like a role player in the playoffs and it sounds like his defense was kinda meh. They got him to be a really good 2-way player and it seemed like he played like a guy that's just a starter that you looks to upgrade after the playoffs are over. Bridges has one more bargain season at just under 25 million and then he is gonna get a raise. How big of a raise? Or maybe he will not actually be worth giving much of a raise? Either way that's not good for the Knicks.

I watched most of the 2nd half of at least 3 games of the Pacers series and similar amount or more of the Pistons series. Towns had a number of positive defensive plays in those instances I watched. We all know Towns isn't a defensive center but he was not bad previously guarding on the perimeter. Maybe that's part of why Thibs got fired. Bridges and OG not really killing it either might have been an issue. It's also worth noting that even though the Knicks got off to a hot start their team was thrown together last off-season too. Maybe another year and a little retooling and Thibs could have made them better. Maybe a new coach will do a better job of all that. We will see. I just remember watching the Pistons series and it felt like the Knicks weren't really much more talented and they should have been the more experienced team although Detroit wasn't all youth. Watching a pretty good chunk of that series it is not surprising that an even deeper team with more dynamic players coached buy a guy that's won a championship bested the Knicks.

That’s a nice take, Monster. Again, it’s almost reflexive for fans to look for an individual scapegoat or two. Management often does that when they single out the head coach for firing. But in the end, it’s a team game and it’s the sum of the parts that determines a team’s fate. Certainly the individual parts, including the head coach, matter but as Kevin McHale once told a group of us at a season ticket holder meeting: “It’s not the five best players; it’s the five players who play best together.” Truth is, OKC is a better team than the Wolves and the Pacers are a better team than the Knicks. This season, with Towns instead of Julius and Donte, the Knicks won 51 games and advanced to the Conference Finals. Last season, the Knicks won 50 games and made it only as far as the Conference semifinals. So it’s a stretch to say Towns was the problem. He was enough to get them one more season victory and advance them an additional step in the playoffs but he wasn’t enough to get them to the Finals. Thibs was Thibs. Would they have made it to the Finals with Malone as their head coach? Who knows but I doubt it. Indiana was the better team.

I agree it's a fair take by monster, and that there were multiple reasons the Knicks lost...to Lip's point, mostly because Indy is the better team. But it's human nature for a passionate fan base to single out a scapegoat to direct their disappointment or anger at. And often it's the highly paid guy on the team who they believe is not playing well enough to justify the percentage of the cap he is absorbing. Ponder this for a moment. Let's say the KAT trade hadn't happened, and he was still a Timberwolf in the conference finals again this season. Do you not think this board would have been lamenting the fact that we were going to be on the hook with no obvious exit strategy in 2 years for $61 million (!!) to KAT every time we watched him get targeted in pick and rolls resulting in wide open looks?

[Wolvesfan21]

Monster, Wild Wolf is more tuned in to the NY media than any of us, so he'll have to weigh in, but my observation is that KAT's defense is being thrown out there as a big reason for the Knicks losing. I don't expect that Bridges is getting a pass, but the fans also know he makes half of what KAT makes, and they know KAT will be making $61 million in a couple years! Expectations for him have to be much higher. And you needed to watch the series to see how relentlessly Indy targeted KAT in the pick and roll, knowing it was going to yield a wide open midrange shot every time...it was frankly sad to watch. KAT is a remarkable talent and might be the best shooting big in the game today, but I found myself whispering a silent prayer to TC often during this series for getting us out from under that ridiculous $61 million.

The Knicks gave up a lot of assets for Bridges arguably more than they did for Towns. He played like a role player in the playoffs and it sounds like his defense was kinda meh. They got him to be a really good 2-way player and it seemed like he played like a guy that's just a starter that you looks to upgrade after the playoffs are over. Bridges has one more bargain season at just under 25 million and then he is gonna get a raise. How big of a raise? Or maybe he will not actually be worth giving much of a raise? Either way that's not good for the Knicks.

I watched most of the 2nd half of at least 3 games of the Pacers series and similar amount or more of the Pistons series. Towns had a number of positive defensive plays in those instances I watched. We all know Towns isn't a defensive center but he was not bad previously guarding on the perimeter. Maybe that's part of why Thibs got fired. Bridges and OG not really killing it either might have been an issue. It's also worth noting that even though the Knicks got off to a hot start their team was thrown together last off-season too. Maybe another year and a little retooling and Thibs could have made them better. Maybe a new coach will do a better job of all that. We will see. I just remember watching the Pistons series and it felt like the Knicks weren't really much more talented and they should have been the more experienced team although Detroit wasn't all youth. Watching a pretty good chunk of that series it is not surprising that an even deeper team with more dynamic players coached buy a guy that's won a championship bested the Knicks.

That’s a nice take, Monster. Again, it’s almost reflexive for fans to look for an individual scapegoat or two. Management often does that when they single out the head coach for firing. But in the end, it’s a team game and it’s the sum of the parts that determines a team’s fate. Certainly the individual parts, including the head coach, matter but as Kevin McHale once told a group of us at a season ticket holder meeting: “It’s not the five best players; it’s the five players who play best together.” Truth is, OKC is a better team than the Wolves and the Pacers are a better team than the Knicks. This season, with Towns instead of Julius and Donte, the Knicks won 51 games and advanced to the Conference Finals. Last season, the Knicks won 50 games and made it only as far as the Conference semifinals. So it’s a stretch to say Towns was the problem. He was enough to get them one more season victory and advance them an additional step in the playoffs but he wasn’t enough to get them to the Finals. Thibs was Thibs. Would they have made it to the Finals with Malone as their head coach? Who knows but I doubt it. Indiana was the better team.

I think statistically (51 versus 50 and getting fortunate to get by Boston who really beat themselves (why are you not going for easy twos to seal the wins?) and had a an obvious tragic injury), that's pretty much the same result. I knew Indiana would beat the Knicks. They to me were a far superior team, but it was somewhat close.

I would say the trade was pretty much a wash for the Knicks, maybe arguably a loss because we don't know option two how those guys perform this last season in NY. However I think it was a nice win for us. Giving us more flexibility going forward to make roster moves and we got a pick to make or trade also. I'd hate to try and trade KAT now, after showing his weaknesses even further to a wider audience. His contract is too large for his performances.