Young player

[FNG]

Am I crazy to say Leonard Miller? I don’t think Finch trusts him at all but with that said he did average 25 and 11 in the G league this year and if they do trade Rudy it’s a make it or break it year for Miller.

Do I think Miller is good? No. Do I think he will play? Probably not. But I’m intrigued because he has all the tools to be an nba player just might not have it in the head.

Not crazy at all, Kek. I don't know if you saw the article in the Strib this morning about Jaylen Clark. Apparently he and a lot of Wolves young guys (he didn't specify who except Miller) are working out and scrimmaging up in Blaine, and Clark said Miller has been dominating everyone. Fun to hear.

[Q-is-here]

Am I crazy to say Leonard Miller? I don’t think Finch trusts him at all but with that said he did average 25 and 11 in the G league this year and if they do trade Rudy it’s a make it or break it year for Miller.

Do I think Miller is good? No. Do I think he will play? Probably not. But I’m intrigued because he has all the tools to be an nba player just might not have it in the head.

Not crazy at all, Kek. I don't know if you saw the article in the Strib this morning about Jaylen Clark. Apparently he and a lot of Wolves young guys (he didn't specify who except Miller) are working out and scrimmaging up in Blaine, and Clark said Miller has been dominating everyone. Fun to hear.

That's good to hear, but I have no doubt he performs well in a more unstructured setting.

I watched quite a bit of Miller in the G-League the last couple of years. If you want a cheaper, less NBA-tested version of Randle and Naz, Miller is your guy. He can pretty much only play PF because of defensive concerns. He does score in a variety of ways and may actually be a better rebounder than Julius and Naz. Defensively he's less of a mess than he was two seasons ago, but still carries big question marks. He also averaged 3.5 TOs per game in the G-League, so he's actually worse at ball security than Julius and Naz. OKC would circling him like vultures the second he stepped onto the floor!

I just don't see much of a need for yet another defensively limited, turnover-prone scoring forward unless somehow Randle and Naz get traded out or lost to free agency.

[Q-is-here]

If all 3 of Dillingham, Clark and TSJ dont get extended run this year Finch should be fired if our roster is the same. We ran out of gas and options for the 2nd year in a row. Those 3 wouldnt have filled the gap but a year's worth of experience with extended minutes would have brought us closer. Donte, Naw, and Conley (plus minus aside) had moments of being unplayable, yet Finch stuck with them out of familiarity. There was no desperation. Conley should be on ice for most of this season if he doesnt retire. He said he was nursing his chronic injury before the season even began.

Of the three of those I am most excited about Dillingham just because his speed and shiftiness are elite. Clark and TSJ are fun but I dont see a singular elite basketball trait (outside of effort) from either of them.

The NBA is about hierarchies. Heck, players often even know exactly how minutes they're getting... and when they'll come in a game.

The Wolves/Finch's commitment to an 8-man rotation was easier, because (1) the team was very healthy for the first 1/2 of the season (2) necessary to realize team potential.

The mantra "We have 8 starters" wasn't just coach-speak... the team's top 8 were better (or more proven) than the rest of the roster by a significant margin. Even amid slumps and poor outings, a guy like Divincenzo should have kept his minutes. Taking those minutes away can potentially alienate a veteran player who'll be critical for the team's ultimate success.

I think most of the angst goes back to early in the year when new faces were trying to fit in... on a team where the top 8 were almost always healthy. Once the Wolves run of good health came to an end... the young guys had significant run.

Clark played 34 of his 40 games after January.
Shannon played 22 of his 32 after January... and it would have been more if he didn't get injured, too.
Dillingham was the one rookie who didn't see such a drastic shift... but he was arguably the least effective of the three "rookies" and least deserving of more run.

That's all true, but this is the second post-season in a row where our bench was an issue. For some reason it's been a strength during the regular season, but then all their flaws show up in the post-season and Finch kind of backed himself into a corner because of his rigid hierarchy. There are pros to that approach for sure, but in hindsight I do think this season especially he should have had a lengthened rotation given what we did see from Shannon and Clark in short stints. They were ready to contribute more.

[TheFuture]

Am I crazy to say Leonard Miller? I don’t think Finch trusts him at all but with that said he did average 25 and 11 in the G league this year and if they do trade Rudy it’s a make it or break it year for Miller.

Do I think Miller is good? No. Do I think he will play? Probably not. But I’m intrigued because he has all the tools to be an nba player just might not have it in the head.

I like the idea of Miller too because of the tools, but I can't be the only one who sees some Shabazz tendencies when he gets the ball - like you said "in the head".

[Monster]

Definitely Dillingham. His pedigree is far better than Clark and TJ (who I also like)...five star reputation all through high school and a productive freshman year at Kentucky. And as I've posted before, I respect Tom Crean's opinion when it comes to evaluating players, and he predicted Rob would be making very good contributions the second half of last season. Well, his injury and Finchy's tight rotation prevented that, but I think he will have a very good second season. I don't think he will begin the year as our starting PG (Finchy likes to keep Rudy and Mike together) unless Rudy is moved, but he may be our starter by the end of the season. His size is an issue to some extent, but it doesn't concern me as much as others. He'll get bigger, and as others have posted, there are many PGs close to his size who have thrived in the NBA. I also am excited to see what Clark and Shannon can do, but they are going to be 24 and 25 when the season starts, respectively. while Rob will still be just 20. Unlike Rob, they are already grown men, and don't have the physical upside that Rob has. Physically they are going to look exactly like they did at the end of this season, but after a summer in the weight room, I predict we will be posting a lot here how different Rob looks.

I still think Clark and Shannon can improve simply based on still being relatively new as full-time basketball professionals and not getting a ton of playing time. We saw how a year recovering from injury and then the G-League transformed Clark into a reliable stationary 3-point shooter, something he did not show at UCLA. But yeah, they can't make massive leaps forward in the way Dillingham potentially could.

Dane Moore thinks Dillingham already put on 5-8 lbs. during the season and I noticed he looked a bit more muscular when they showed close-up of him during playoff garbage time. And don't forget that both Jaden and Ant kept growing into their second NBA season! That's certainly possible for a guy whose combine measurements were taken when he was barely 19 years old.

I also think Clark and Shannon will improve as they get more NBA court time. Clark has terrific defensive instincts, but needs to play a little more within himself at times...too may fouls or times he gets beat by biting on a fake. I'm not as optimistic about either of them as 3-point shooters though, because I don't like their mechanics. But I have to admit both shot better than I would have expected coming out of college.

FWIW Clark also shot 39 for 102 on 3's in 20 G-league games. I'm not saying I'm 100% believer in his 3 point shot but I think there might be reason to have some optimism based on what he did this year. He did improve each year in college although the bar the first couple years was pretty low. Lol He also had a bit of a unique post game in college so he has some touch. On 2 point shots He didn't shoot a fantastic percentage within 3 feet of the rim but he shot over 46% on 3-10 and then. 50% on 10-16 for range. These are small samples outside of the 3 point shots but he seemed to know when to pick his spots to get a bucket. I agree he sometimes was too aggressive on D but his off ball defense is really good I would say better than Okogie his rookie year.

[Lipoli390]

If we want to know where the Wolves organization is at when it comes to TSJ but also Rob, perhaps we should just listen to what the Wolves head coach has to say about them.

Speaking with Paul Allen on KFAN radio on Tuesday, Finch said Shannon will be a "significant part" of Minnesota's rotation in his second NBA campaign.

"What we love about TJ is that he has a very well-defined game," Finch said. "He knows who he is, and we saw that. You can throw him in at any moment. Next year, obviously he's gonna be a significant part of our rotation."

The main thing Shannon can bring the Wolves, which they sometimes lacked, is pace and energy. He's a relentless attacker who loves to get out in transition and run. His mindset and scoring ability thrives in those situations, although he's also a capable and effective player in the half court. Finch would like to see the Wolves utilize more pace in the future.

Finch went on to say: "One of the reasons we drafted Rob (Dillingham) and TJ is because they can increase our pace, and we're excited about that for next season," Finch said. "But we need more pace out of our main players too. It's just a commitment we're gonna have to make, and it is a way to counter all the physicality that OKC does play with."


First of all, this isn’t what you’d expect to hear from Finch if the Wolves were seriously contemplating including TSJ (or even Rob) in a Durant trade. I’m not suggesting that Finch would show the Wolves hand by declining to answer or evading questions about TSJ, but he didn’t have to appear on KFAN or he could have asked Paul Allen confidentially not to ask him about any specific players and Paul would have honored that request and kept it to himself. And he certainly didn’t have to go on as much as he did. He had less to say about Rob but I find it interesting that he wasn’t even asked about Rob yet he gratuitously mentioned Rob as a guy they drafted to provide the additional pace Finch said the team needs. Finch’s overall focus on pace might suggest the team is going to move on from Rudy but trading either TSJ or Rob for Durant seems to cut against what Finch said the team is prioritizing for next season.

Second, if Finch were to join in this thread, I suspect he’d rank TSJ #1. I’m not sure whether he’d rank Rob or Clark #2 but I’m certain he likes all three. The question is whether and how much he’ll play these three guys. He’s already telling us he’ll be playing TSJ quite a bit next season.

Interestingly, in all the TC and Finch interviews since the end of the Wolves season I’ve never heard either one mention Clark. I’ve heard them both mention TSJ and Rob quite a bit - sometime gratuitously when no one asks about them. They’ve both mentioned Randle and Naz a lot as well as Ant and Jaden. I don’t recall either one mentioning Clark, Rudy or Donte. I might have missed something but if my recollection is correct, perhaps it’s revealing. The Suns owner said he’s looking for players with “toughness and grit.” Hmm. Don’t Jaylen Clark and Donte both fit that mold? They need a center. Wouldn’t that be Rudy? They want to win now and not just rebuild. Wouldn’t that be Rudy and Donte (maybe Clark too). Just wondering.

[Q-is-here]

Speaking with Paul Allen on KFAN radio on Tuesday, Finch said Shannon will be a "significant part" of Minnesota's rotation in his second NBA campaign.

"What we love about TJ is that he has a very well-defined game," Finch said. "He knows who he is, and we saw that. You can throw him in at any moment. Next year, obviously he's gonna be a significant part of our rotation."

In 57 minutes of post-season play across 9 games, this is what Shannon did:

FG% - 48%
3Pt% - 37.5%
FT% - 100% (he managed to go to the line 12 times and made all 12!)
Points - 41
Rebs - 10
Assts - 3
Stls - 4
TOV - 3
Net Rating - +4.1

Not bad output in what would amount to less than two games for a regular starter!

[Lipoli390]

Speaking with Paul Allen on KFAN radio on Tuesday, Finch said Shannon will be a "significant part" of Minnesota's rotation in his second NBA campaign.

"What we love about TJ is that he has a very well-defined game," Finch said. "He knows who he is, and we saw that. You can throw him in at any moment. Next year, obviously he's gonna be a significant part of our rotation."

In 57 minutes of post-season play across 9 games, this is what Shannon did:

FG% - 48%
3Pt% - 37.5%
FT% - 100% (he managed to go to the line 12 times and made all 12!)
Points - 41
Rebs - 10
Assts - 3
Stls - 4
TOV - 3
Net Rating - +4.1

Not bad output in what would amount to less than two games for a regular starter!

I’ll add that in the five regular season game where he played more than 20 minutes, TSJ averaged 16.6 points and 6 rebounds. In his four G-League games he averaged 36.5 points. I’ve been serious when I’ve referred to him as our potential Jalen Williams.

[Monster]

Am I crazy to say Leonard Miller? I don’t think Finch trusts him at all but with that said he did average 25 and 11 in the G league this year and if they do trade Rudy it’s a make it or break it year for Miller.

Do I think Miller is good? No. Do I think he will play? Probably not. But I’m intrigued because he has all the tools to be an nba player just might not have it in the head.

I like the idea of Miller too because of the tools, but I can't be the only one who sees some Shabazz tendencies when he gets the ball - like you said "in the head".

I get what you are saying. I think the issue is Miller is a guy with a lot of skills but idk if he knows what he is or isn't or what he is good at for sure or isn't good at. This leads him to be kinda all over the place. He used to be a PG and grew into a guy with the size of a big. He has a less than conventional 3 point shot but he can make them. He is pretty athletic but isn't isn't super duper strong. Vanderbilt didn't figure it out till he had actually played in some NBA games. Miller has at least been mostly healthy and able to play in more G-league games. Idk how he will get minutes at this point unless something fairly drastic happens. Garza struggled to get minutes last season and he deserved them based on what he has done overall on the Wolves and in Iowa.

I think the question for Miller is if they decide to play him at some point can they tell him to do a couple things and he do them and not screw up too much. They kinda did that with Minott and it went ok-ish for a while but then not so much. To be fair to Minott it was the first time he was playing any kind of regular minutes that mattered. He probbaly has a better game to just go out and do shit than Miller but Miller has more talent. Will it amount to anything? Idk but to find out he needs to play at some point. That could be tough depending on who all is on the roster.

When I watch TSJ I actually think of Shabazz but TSJ is better and he can actually defend. I know Bazz was and is a flawed guy but I still kinda wonder what happened why he just dropped off the way he did. He is likely making some decent money Ballin in China or whatever so yeah. TSJ is a guy that forces the issue and this team has needed another guy like that for a while. I think the last guy to be like that and have success as a guard that wasn't top player was probaly Derrick Rose.

[Lipoli390]

Am I crazy to say Leonard Miller? I don’t think Finch trusts him at all but with that said he did average 25 and 11 in the G league this year and if they do trade Rudy it’s a make it or break it year for Miller.

Do I think Miller is good? No. Do I think he will play? Probably not. But I’m intrigued because he has all the tools to be an nba player just might not have it in the head.

I like the idea of Miller too because of the tools, but I can't be the only one who sees some Shabazz tendencies when he gets the ball - like you said "in the head".

I get what you are saying. I think the issue is Miller is a guy with a lot of skills but idk if he knows what he is or isn't or what he is good at for sure or isn't good at. This leads him to be kinda all over the place. He used to be a PG and grew into a guy with the size of a big. He has a less than conventional 3 point shot but he can make them. He is pretty athletic but isn't isn't super duper strong. Vanderbilt didn't figure it out till he had actually played in some NBA games. Miller has at least been mostly healthy and able to play in more G-league games. Idk how he will get minutes at this point unless something fairly drastic happens. Garza struggled to get minutes last season and he deserved them based on what he has done overall on the Wolves and in Iowa.

I think the question for Miller is if they decide to play him at some point can they tell him to do a couple things and he do them and not screw up too much. They kinda did that with Minott and it went ok-ish for a while but then not so much. To be fair to Minott it was the first time he was playing any kind of regular minutes that mattered. He probbaly has a better game to just go out and do shit than Miller but Miller has more talent. Will it amount to anything? Idk but to find out he needs to play at some point. That could be tough depending on who all is on the roster.

When I watch TSJ I actually think of Shabazz but TSJ is better and he can actually defend. I know Bazz was and is a flawed guy but I still kinda wonder what happened why he just dropped off the way he did. He is likely making some decent money Ballin in China or whatever so yeah. TSJ is a guy that forces the issue and this team has needed another guy like that for a while. I think the last guy to be like that and have success as a guard that wasn't top player was probaly Derrick Rose.

Ah Shabazz! Haven’t heard that name in long time.

Actually, it was Baz (as we used to call him) who connected me with Flip Saunders. My email to the Wolves front office criticized the Wolves draft decisions that year - specifically drafting Baz and selling the 27th pick for cash rather than using it to draft Rudy Gobert. I sent the email late on a Friday afternoon and it apparently found its way to Flip who promptly called me Monday morning. The voice on the other end of the phone introduced himself as Flip Saunders and at first I thought I was being pranked. But I quickly realized it was really him. He said he read what he called my “memo” and thought I made some good points but that he wanted to discuss and push back a bit. So he invited me to lunch at the Loon Cafe. We met for lunch that Wednesday, a week before that year’s draft. We spent two hours talking about the previous draft, including Baz, the upcoming draft, the Wolves overall and basketball generally. Flip regaled me with all sorts of behind-the-curtain moments he’d experienced. It was an incredible experience for me. We stayed in contact from that point forward, texting, emailing and occasionally talking. He was a great person and I miss him.

Regarding Baz, who had just had a very underwhelming rookie season, Flip told me he was still convinced Baz would become a really good scorer and a starter. My thought on Baz at the time, which I relayed to Flip, was that I didn’t see any upside. He didn’t have impressive length and lacked ball skills. He had a nice mid-range shot, but didn’t appear to have much range. He seemed slow and mechanical for his position. He definitely wasn’t explosive and he had a pretty bad handle. Watching him was incredibly underwhelming, I said he looked like a guy who had topped out in college. And it looked like the effort with Baz wasn’t always there. Flip didn’t agree but we didn’t dwell on it.

That’s the long way of saying I don’t see any similarity between Baz and TSJ. Unlike Baz, TSJ is a dynamic, quick, explosive, supremely competitive wing with terrific ball skills and a high revving motor. Watching the two side by side is night and day. I sort of get the comparison of Baz and Miller in relation to the sometimes missing effort or energy, but unlike Baz, Miller has great length for his position and a natural knack for rebounding.

I still like Miller, and I still like Minott too, even though I’d be fine including them in a trade package for the right return.