Wolves vs. Spurs

[FNG]

I know we have a lot of Ant stans here, but can anyone really make a case that our team is more fun to watch when he is playing? We just never seem to have the ball movement and the crazy pressure defense when Ant is on the court, and those are aspects of buckets I like best.

FNG, you are at the point now where you are turning Ant into a caricature of everything you dislike about him. It's no longer grounded in reality as far as the playoffs are concerned (I get the frustration as it relates to his varying energy levels in the regular season).

In the three full games Ant played against Denver, the team averaged 27 assists per game. In the next three games, the team averaged 25 assists per game. In fact the closing game featured a TON of Jaden and Shannon isolating and getting into the teeth of Denver's defense to either get all the way to the rim (Shannon) or pull up over the defense for a mid-range jumper (Jaden). May be this was more fun to you simply because they aren't Ant I guess?? These shot attempts weren't the result of some beautiful motion-offense sets. It was because they had athletic advantages that the Wolves were trying to exploit....it's the exact same thing Ant would have been doing if he was being single covered.

Defensively, Ant had a better defensive rating in the series than Jaden and Rudy and it was 10 points better than his regular season defensive rating. The idea that somehow our defense suddenly ratcheted way up when he wasn't in the game simply isn't true. He averaged 8 rebounds and nearly 2 blocks per game in his three full games of the series. He was a huge factor in that Game 2 come-from-behind win. But I guess that wasn't fun to you since you had the burden of having to watch him play in that game....

As for him coming back for the Spurs series, I'm a little skeptical given the fact he's had runner's knee on the "healthy" leg. Just seems risky for him to play given everything he's got going on and how off he looked even before the hyperextended knee on the other leg.

I'll admit I'm trying to manufacture some reasons to get more optimistic about this series other than Wemby going down, and landed on style of play. But it's much more likely the absence of Ant, Donte, and maybe Ayo's 3-point shooting is why we the spurs are a 20 to 1 favorite. Hard to see how we overcome that against a team that protects the rim so well.

[AussieWolf3]

I know we have a lot of Ant stans here, but can anyone really make a case that our team is more fun to watch when he is playing? We just never seem to have the ball movement and the crazy pressure defense when Ant is on the court, and those are aspects of buckets I like best.

FNG, you are at the point now where you are turning Ant into a caricature of everything you dislike about him. It's no longer grounded in reality as far as the playoffs are concerned (I get the frustration as it relates to his varying energy levels in the regular season).

In the three full games Ant played against Denver, the team averaged 27 assists per game. In the next three games, the team averaged 25 assists per game. In fact the closing game featured a TON of Jaden and Shannon isolating and getting into the teeth of Denver's defense to either get all the way to the rim (Shannon) or pull up over the defense for a mid-range jumper (Jaden). May be this was more fun to you simply because they aren't Ant I guess?? These shot attempts weren't the result of some beautiful motion-offense sets. It was because they had athletic advantages that the Wolves were trying to exploit....it's the exact same thing Ant would have been doing if he was being single covered.

Defensively, Ant had a better defensive rating in the series than Jaden and Rudy and it was 10 points better than his regular season defensive rating. The idea that somehow our defense suddenly ratcheted way up when he wasn't in the game simply isn't true. He averaged 8 rebounds and nearly 2 blocks per game in his three full games of the series. He was a huge factor in that Game 2 come-from-behind win. But I guess that wasn't fun to you since you had the burden of having to watch him play in that game....

As for him coming back for the Spurs series, I'm a little skeptical given the fact he's had runner's knee on the "healthy" leg. Just seems risky for him to play given everything he's got going on and how off he looked even before the hyperextended knee on the other leg.

I'll admit I'm trying to manufacture some reasons to get more optimistic about this series other than Wemby going down, and landed on style of play. But it's much more likely the absence of Ant, Donte, and maybe Ayo's 3-point shooting is why we the spurs are a 20 to 1 favorite. Hard to see how we overcome that against a team that protects the rim so well.

The Spurs had the 5th best rim FG% allowed this season (as in the 5th lowest)
The Wolves were 3rd

The Spurs had 14th best 3p FG% this year on offense
And while it doesn't matter for this series, the Wolves were 6th.

This series is very much strength against strength. Which is a stark contrast to the Denver series which was very much the Wolves having the skeleton key for their weakness.

[Q-is-here]

I know we have a lot of Ant stans here, but can anyone really make a case that our team is more fun to watch when he is playing? We just never seem to have the ball movement and the crazy pressure defense when Ant is on the court, and those are aspects of buckets I like best.

FNG, you are at the point now where you are turning Ant into a caricature of everything you dislike about him. It's no longer grounded in reality as far as the playoffs are concerned (I get the frustration as it relates to his varying energy levels in the regular season).

In the three full games Ant played against Denver, the team averaged 27 assists per game. In the next three games, the team averaged 25 assists per game. In fact the closing game featured a TON of Jaden and Shannon isolating and getting into the teeth of Denver's defense to either get all the way to the rim (Shannon) or pull up over the defense for a mid-range jumper (Jaden). May be this was more fun to you simply because they aren't Ant I guess?? These shot attempts weren't the result of some beautiful motion-offense sets. It was because they had athletic advantages that the Wolves were trying to exploit....it's the exact same thing Ant would have been doing if he was being single covered.

Defensively, Ant had a better defensive rating in the series than Jaden and Rudy and it was 10 points better than his regular season defensive rating. The idea that somehow our defense suddenly ratcheted way up when he wasn't in the game simply isn't true. He averaged 8 rebounds and nearly 2 blocks per game in his three full games of the series. He was a huge factor in that Game 2 come-from-behind win. But I guess that wasn't fun to you since you had the burden of having to watch him play in that game....

As for him coming back for the Spurs series, I'm a little skeptical given the fact he's had runner's knee on the "healthy" leg. Just seems risky for him to play given everything he's got going on and how off he looked even before the hyperextended knee on the other leg.

It's pretty funny how ungrateful some are towards Ant simply because they don't like who he is off the court. Not one game Ant has sat has been more exciting than our series against Phoenix, Denver two years ago, Lakers, and Golden State. No regular season games this year without Ant were more exciting than our first game of the year when Ant showed us he worked on his clutch game, our Christmas loss that Ant almost willed us into victory, our two games against San Antonio that Ant willed us to victory in one and we got screwed by a missed foul call that should have sent Joan to the free throw line instead of San Antonio hitting a killer three in a game Rudy was out.

This last win against Denver was very exciting and fun to see. Denver's defense is so bad they couldn't figure out how easy it is to defend Shannon by forcing him to the right and blocking his shot when he refuses to shoot with his left hand. This team has the tools to win a championship for the first time in existence, it's probably not gong to happen this year with Ant and Donte out, but our best youngish players aren't even in that 26-29 year old superstar championship window yet when stars generally win their first championship. This teams best years are still to come, we just need to figure out what we are going to do as Rudy gets older hopefully that is Joan.

I think FNG separates Ant's off court behavior with his on court results. It's Cool that has previously expressed his disdain for Ant based on him having multiple baby mommas, but he'll claim he's perfectly objective when it comes to Ant .

The problem is FNG has magnified Ant's flaws to the point he's become a caricature: He's slow, doesn't play defense, never passes the ball, drags the entire team down, etc. FNG has jumped the shark at this point, although he'll begrudgingly admit we might miss his 3-point shooting, LOL.

[Coolbreeze44]

What's the matter with you guys? Make a prediction and stand by it. I think Ant returns for game 3 and the series sees the home team winning all the way to game 7, where the Wolves experience rules the day and we take the series. Jaden had his next coming out party in the Denver series and he's ready to factor in heavily. Randle will bully the lighter Spurs and get to the basket. Our role players will play well at home to keep the series close. Wolves in 7.

[FNG]

FNG, you are at the point now where you are turning Ant into a caricature of everything you dislike about him. It's no longer grounded in reality as far as the playoffs are concerned (I get the frustration as it relates to his varying energy levels in the regular season).

In the three full games Ant played against Denver, the team averaged 27 assists per game. In the next three games, the team averaged 25 assists per game. In fact the closing game featured a TON of Jaden and Shannon isolating and getting into the teeth of Denver's defense to either get all the way to the rim (Shannon) or pull up over the defense for a mid-range jumper (Jaden). May be this was more fun to you simply because they aren't Ant I guess?? These shot attempts weren't the result of some beautiful motion-offense sets. It was because they had athletic advantages that the Wolves were trying to exploit....it's the exact same thing Ant would have been doing if he was being single covered.

Defensively, Ant had a better defensive rating in the series than Jaden and Rudy and it was 10 points better than his regular season defensive rating. The idea that somehow our defense suddenly ratcheted way up when he wasn't in the game simply isn't true. He averaged 8 rebounds and nearly 2 blocks per game in his three full games of the series. He was a huge factor in that Game 2 come-from-behind win. But I guess that wasn't fun to you since you had the burden of having to watch him play in that game....

As for him coming back for the Spurs series, I'm a little skeptical given the fact he's had runner's knee on the "healthy" leg. Just seems risky for him to play given everything he's got going on and how off he looked even before the hyperextended knee on the other leg.

It's pretty funny how ungrateful some are towards Ant simply because they don't like who he is off the court. Not one game Ant has sat has been more exciting than our series against Phoenix, Denver two years ago, Lakers, and Golden State. No regular season games this year without Ant were more exciting than our first game of the year when Ant showed us he worked on his clutch game, our Christmas loss that Ant almost willed us into victory, our two games against San Antonio that Ant willed us to victory in one and we got screwed by a missed foul call that should have sent Joan to the free throw line instead of San Antonio hitting a killer three in a game Rudy was out.

This last win against Denver was very exciting and fun to see. Denver's defense is so bad they couldn't figure out how easy it is to defend Shannon by forcing him to the right and blocking his shot when he refuses to shoot with his left hand. This team has the tools to win a championship for the first time in existence, it's probably not gong to happen this year with Ant and Donte out, but our best youngish players aren't even in that 26-29 year old superstar championship window yet when stars generally win their first championship. This teams best years are still to come, we just need to figure out what we are going to do as Rudy gets older hopefully that is Joan.

I think FNG separates Ant's off court behavior with his on court results. It's Cool that has previously expressed his disdain for Ant based on him having multiple baby mommas, but he'll claim he's perfectly objective when it comes to Ant .

The problem is FNG has magnified Ant's flaws to the point he's become a caricature: He's slow, doesn't play defense, never passes the ball, drags the entire team down, etc. FNG has jumped the shark at this point, although he'll begrudgingly admit we might miss his 3-point shooting, LOL.

You missed one, Q, and it's the most important one! I've pointed out that almost all players who are widely considered superstars on this board also fare very well in on/off stats; that is, their team performs much better when they are on the court than when they are off. Hence expressions like "winning the non-Jokic minutes". The three superstars we would need to beat to get to the NBA finals (Jokic, Wemby, and SGA) all rank on their teams in on/off where a true superstar does...first! But Ant is a rare exception in that he rarely shows up well in on/off...case in point, he ranked 8th in on/off this season for the Wolves. Some here tie themselves up in knots trying to justify why Ant doesn't outscore his opponents like other superstars do, but to me it's clear that it's some of the flaws in his game that leave him far behind other superstars in the league. And I've also demonstrated in other threads how poorly he ranks in other stats that true superstars excel in, like VORP and ws/48. He's still young and is immensely athletic and talented, but if you truly want to be a top ten player, your stats other than PPG need to look more like the guys whose teams suffer when they go to the bench. And the Wolves don't.

Vegas has convinced themselves that Ant being out is a complete disaster, and that's why the odds are so bizarre...20 to 1 in a second round series...come on! I'm trying to find some reason to get optimistic about our chances in this series, and being a guy who loves to analyze deep stats, I'm trying to convince myself that we have a chance without Ant...but maybe you guys are right.

[Wolvesfan21]

If someone wants to create a separate poll, have at it, otherwise you can just state your prediction here along with any thoughts and analysis.

Here are two data points to think about....

- After Wemby and Kornet, who rarely play together, the Spurs' 3rd tallest player in their rotation is Harrison Barnes at 6'7".

- In Game 6 against Denver, Finch fielded a lineup for 12 minutes that consisted of Shannon at PG, Jaden at SG, Naz at SF, Julius at PF, and Rudy at C. They had a net rating of +36 (pro-rated for 100 possessions).

Let's start with a little bit of reality: The Spurs are a 20-1 favorite to win the series...that's right, you can bet $200 on them to win $10. Who's in? Further, they are 13 1/2 point favorites in game 1 Monday. You just don't see odds like that in round 2 very often. The Wolves won 2 out of 3 from the Spurs this season. But they were mostly healthy (Rudy missed one game with a suspension), and my sources tell me they may not be healthy now.

Q, Dane Moore was talking about the "big lineup" on their most recent pod. There's no question our length was a big factor in our series win...every Nugget seemed to be aware of Rudy's presence in the paint, and Jaden made life hellish for Murray. Further, Jaden's height advantage seemed to give him a good look at the basket every time he shot. We might see Finchy role out these 4 occasionally.

But we're never going to have a height advantage at center when Wemby is out there, and also the paint and rim are no longer going to be wide open like they were against the Nuggets. This is bad news for Shannon, Ayo (if he plays), Jaden and Naz, all who seemed to prefer scoring in the paint to 3-pointers. But we have little chance of winning unless at least two of these guys are successful beyond the arc in this series.

So, who is going to guard Wemby? The obvious choice is Rudy. Wemby seems to have some reverence for the elder Frenchman. Did you ever feel uncomfortable beating your dad in some sport when you were younger? Maybe we'll get some of that from Wemby. But it actually might be Ju guarding him, since he had a lot of success being physical with him this year. But them who does Rudy take? You can't leave Champagnie alone beyond the arc.

I'm going into this series with low expectations, but also anticipating it will be a lot of fun. I know we have a lot of Ant stans here, but can anyone really make a case that our team is more fun to watch when he is playing? We just never seem to have the ball movement and the crazy pressure defense when Ant is on the court, and those are aspects of buckets I like best. But with the big freak roaming in the paint, there's no question that we are going to miss our two most prolific 3-point shooters. Charania says Game 3 Friday is the earliest Ant could return, so we'll see. I know I'm in a small minority here, but I actually think we are going to miss Donte's 2-way play and energy more than we miss Ant in the first two games. And of course Ayo is a mystery too...

20-1 is too high, thats crazy! Yes we're heavy underdogs and I didn't even want to make a poll because of it. With the house juice though you only get +950 to bet on the Wolves which is a bit ridiculous of a spread. Give me 15-1 and I'd throw down on the Wolves to make the big upset. Heck you never know if Wemby gets hurt, this is the playoffs and it's reasonable to think he could, which then makes the talent gap real close.

I think even if Ant comes back, he will probably be so limited that he's not much of a help. So I can't count on that either. Overall I say Spurs in 5.

[Phenom]

With the injuries the Wolves currently have, I gotta spot the Spurs an extra game. Wolves in 7.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm going to back FNG on this one. Anyone except the stat cherry picker Q can see the product is more pleasing to the eye when Ant isn't out there. We just took down the #3 seed with barely a contribution from Ant. Because the pansy Q called me out again for having disdain for Ant off the court, I will state my stance once gain so you all get it straight from me. These are the things I have said repeatedly over the years:

1) I don't respect Ant the man for his off court dalliances. We know about the baby mommas and how many there are, we don't know how many he paid to cover up. I suspect the number is not zero. As a man who has alwasy stayed true to his wife in the face of opportunity, it's hard for me to accept his behavior.

2) Ant is our best player and he certainy knows it. He always talks in the media about his love for his teammates and how he wants to get them more involved. But I prefer to wacth a man's actions over listening to his words. His actions include rarely making the extra pass to get a teammate a good look, often pounding the ball in the half court for most of the shot clock before trying to beat his man one on one. And him negating fast break opportunities to be able to maintain control of the offense, even to the detriment of the team.

3) I believe he's a top 5 talent in the league. His combination of athleticism and competitive fire can be breathtaking at times. I also believe he's a top 15 player in the league, one who can potentially move into the top 10 or even top 3. Winning is still not his #1 priority. He wants to win of course, but it's not what drives him the most. He's most driven by individual glory and if we should happen to win while he obtains it, it's just the cherry on top.

4) I think Ant is the best player in franchise history.

5) No one wants to see him succeed more than I do.

6) I think a market exists currently where we could improve our overall team by moving him. I don't see him as untradeable.

7) It's just my opinion as I really don't know, but I'd say he isn't a candidate to ace the Wonderlic test.

8) All in all I'm glad he's on our team. We've had unprecedented success since he came here. And I also believe our best days are still ahead of us.


That's my stance and i won't apologize for any of it. You can agree with all of it, some of it, or none of it. It's what I believe and I find it to be very objective.

[AussieWolf3]

Ok Cool, I'll say with my chest haha

Wolves in 7

Ant comes back game 4 with the Wolves down 2-1 and they even it up in front of the home crowd, and then steal game 5 to go up 3-2.

San Antonio is full of dogs tho and they take the heart of Minneapolis in game 6 causing the Wolves to miss the closeout opportunity at home.

No matter tho, cause the Wolves will return the favor in the higher leverage game. Ant goes for 44 in game 7 on 6 of 11 from 3, its neck and neck into the clutch but the more experienced team pulls ahead and win with some comfortability.

[Coolbreeze44]

All right, we are getting a lot of Wolves in 7 sentiment. I like it.