khans2k5 wrote:Another first round corner. I'm just worn out at this point. Why can't the corner guru find contributors in the mid rounds rather than spend expensive capital on a guy we won't extend in 5 years? Waynes and Alexander just walked without extensions. Stop spending high picks on guys that are 50/50 that you even get a second contract out of.
More like, they failed to maintain enough cap space to extend either of them. They dropped big money to replace Joseph instead while letting Everson walk as well.
If Waynes or Alexander were worth it they would have found the space to retain them over other players. That's the point. Two high picks gone that you don't even get a second contract out of because they didn't give you enough to prioritize their return. If Zim is the CB whisperer he should be getting value players in the mid-rounds every year to give us the same return as Waynes and Alexander and invested those resources into other positions of need that he's not as good at developing.
I don't disagree with that but do you pass up the guy you think is the most talented player just because the guys you picked before didn't exactly work out?
I mean he was the most talented CB on the board, but not the most talented player on the board. You have a safety sitting on a franchise tag that you likely can't extend with the best safety and 17th best player in the draft sitting on the board. A safety who happens to be extremely versatile like your other safety potentially giving you a dynamic backstop that cold wreak havoc on the league. That opens up trading Harris for more capital so it depends on what you think you can get back for Harris after taking a safety. Could Harris have landed you the same return as trading back to 31 or more? I would hope more, but I don't know either.
Why invest in a first round safety when they can just coach up another undrafted guy at that position? ;) In all seriousness I don't disagree with you at all. My only question is what can they actually get for Harris at this point? I wonder if his contract demands are making his value low enough the Vikings aren't really looking to move him. Spielman made it sound like they were planning to keep him as he said they know they are likely going to be playing young players at CB and do having 2 experienced safeties would help in that process. Does that mean Harris for sure isn't going anywhere? No. If the Vikings aren't getting at least a 4th round pick unless there is some other move they want to make (Cap space) why not keep Harris for another year as it's likely they would get at least a 4th comp pick for him if he left. I don't remember who said it but on one of the draft coverages someone said they were expecting the price to acquire Trent Williams was a 4th rounder. I'm not sure I buy that but IF that's true it makes me wonder if the price for Harris isn't exactly high either.
Watching some highlights of Justin Jefferson my take is he is plenty fast but he isn't wildly quick and shifty with the ball in his hand. One he gets up to speed in a step or 2 he looks pretty fast. I'd say he compares more to Thielen than Diggs but that's fine with me. I like him as the pick but I'm not sold on him being super awesome But he looks like he can be pretty good. I do think it seems like he is a good fit in a few ways. He seems to have enough speed to be a downfield threat and he isn't a big guy but he has good height.
I am not a big fan of each player picked and the trade down we should have either gotten a future pick or the 156th pick. We had a 30 point deficit according to the chart.
I think Justin Jefferson is a good value you there and surprised he fell, but feel his value was higher because he played for LSU. I was hoping we would someone get Tyler Johnson. He seems to be tight with Adam Thelien already.
Jeff Gladney is a good player, but he is 23 years old already. I would have gone with Jaylon Jones or Kristian Fulton who are 2 years younger and are each taller.
Jeff Gladney is a good player, but he is 23 years old already. I would have gone with Jaylon Jones or Kristian Fulton who are 2 years younger and are each taller.
Does age really matter in the NFL though?
We've all seen the stats about the lengths of career. Many of the top prospects at 18 are no longer the top at 23...
As a Wolves fan, I've been burned too many times by the "You just wait, he's still only xx years old" hype and promise. For football... I think it's beyond annoying to simply irrelevant.
I think it does. Joe Burrow is 23 years old just like Lamar Jackson. Kyle Murray last year's number one pick is actually a year younger.
The difference between NFL and NBA is that these kids are all playing at somewhat the same level for 2-3 years before being eligible. I don't think it matters as much at QB and OL/DL, but RB/WR/CB matters once you are on the wrong side of 30 you are a dinosaur. It usually takes a rookie 2-3 years to be a contributor. I would be cautious about picking someone 23 years old in the first round.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I am not a big fan of each player picked and the trade down we should have either gotten a future pick or the 156th pick. We had a 30 point deficit according to the chart.
I think Justin Jefferson is a good value you there and surprised he fell, but feel his value was higher because he played for LSU. I was hoping we would someone get Tyler Johnson. He seems to be tight with Adam Thelien already.
Jeff Gladney is a good player, but he is 23 years old already. I would have gone with Jaylon Jones or Kristian Fulton who are 2 years younger and are each taller.
I'm closer to this side, but I think it's pretty much 50/50 this was a good start or a bad one for the draft. On the one hand Jefferson gives us a slot guy we haven't had in several years and he can stretch the field for Thielen. Gladney is a Zim guy apparently with the way he plays so you hope that means he can be maximized. On the other hand Spielmen is really bad at evaluating WR talent in the early rounds. Jefferson isn't an outside guy and he played on a stacked receiving core with the best QB in college so who knows how much playing in the slot with that much talent around you just makes life that easy where it doesn't translate as well to the NFL. Gladney has already had knee injuries which we've seen slow down the development of Hughes so our starting 2 corners are coming off knee injuries. Not great. I don't care as much about the age factor for Gladney. If we can get a second contract out of him it's a win given our last couple high DB picks. It's a toss up for me that I can see it being a great 1st round or a disaster first round in hindsight pretty easily either way.
I liked Denzel Mims over Justin Jefferson. I worry about guys that are not the best players at their own position in college. Ja'Marr Chase was the best WR on that LSU team full of weapons.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I am not a big fan of each player picked and the trade down we should have either gotten a future pick or the 156th pick. We had a 30 point deficit according to the chart.
I think Justin Jefferson is a good value you there and surprised he fell, but feel his value was higher because he played for LSU. I was hoping we would someone get Tyler Johnson. He seems to be tight with Adam Thelien already.
Jeff Gladney is a good player, but he is 23 years old already. I would have gone with Jaylon Jones or Kristian Fulton who are 2 years younger and are each taller.
I'm closer to this side, but I think it's pretty much 50/50 this was a good start or a bad one for the draft. On the one hand Jefferson gives us a slot guy we haven't had in several years and he can stretch the field for Thielen. Gladney is a Zim guy apparently with the way he plays so you hope that means he can be maximized. On the other hand Spielmen is really bad at evaluating WR talent in the early rounds. Jefferson isn't an outside guy and he played on a stacked receiving core with the best QB in college so who knows how much playing in the slot with that much talent around you just makes life that easy where it doesn't translate as well to the NFL. Gladney has already had knee injuries which we've seen slow down the development of Hughes so our starting 2 corners are coming off knee injuries. Not great. I don't care as much about the age factor for Gladney. If we can get a second contract out of him it's a win given our last couple high DB picks. It's a toss up for me that I can see it being a great 1st round or a disaster first round in hindsight pretty easily either way.
Jefferson played outside the previous year. Keep in mind this was a guy that was a nobody coming out of HS. He became something on a pretty stacked team. There are both positives and negatives there. Was Speilman involved in picking Harvin?
Age is a nice bonus for guys like Hunter Mattison Irv Smith and evening Treadwell etc who the Vikings have picked recently but not a reason to big knock a guy when it comes to the NFL. NBA a 23 year old guy...has to be something insanely special to be a top 10 or even 15 pick. Meanwhile Gladney is a guy with a ton of experience in college so maybe his development happens a year quicker mitigating that age thing. Daniel House probably isn't a football genius but he does his homework and always sounds like he knows what he is talking about. He is a big fan of Gladney especially in Zimmer's defense. Supposedly Gladney Did some pretty impressive testing numbers last summer in college. 4.34 40, 400LB bench, 410 Clean and 600 squat or something like that. He played basically a whole season with a knee injury and still had a heck of a season. The knee is a little concerning but I think on his own he is an intriguing prospect.
khans2k5 wrote:Another first round corner. I'm just worn out at this point. Why can't the corner guru find contributors in the mid rounds rather than spend expensive capital on a guy we won't extend in 5 years? Waynes and Alexander just walked without extensions. Stop spending high picks on guys that are 50/50 that you even get a second contract out of.
More like, they failed to maintain enough cap space to extend either of them. They dropped big money to replace Joseph instead while letting Everson walk as well.
If Waynes or Alexander were worth it they would have found the space to retain them over other players. That's the point. Two high picks gone that you don't even get a second contract out of because they didn't give you enough to prioritize their return. If Zim is the CB whisperer he should be getting value players in the mid-rounds every year to give us the same return as Waynes and Alexander and invested those resources into other positions of need that he's not as good at developing.
I don't disagree, especially about Waynes (no way they ever keep him at that rate even with enough cap). Alexander wasn't expensive and I think they would have kept him if they weren't pinching pennies.
All in all I get the hesitation in using more 1sts on CBs, but it was a desperate need at that point. Now it's much less so, but I expect them to draft at least 1-2 more DBs.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I am not a big fan of each player picked and the trade down we should have either gotten a future pick or the 156th pick. We had a 30 point deficit according to the chart.
I think Justin Jefferson is a good value you there and surprised he fell, but feel his value was higher because he played for LSU. I was hoping we would someone get Tyler Johnson. He seems to be tight with Adam Thelien already.
Jeff Gladney is a good player, but he is 23 years old already. I would have gone with Jaylon Jones or Kristian Fulton who are 2 years younger and are each taller.
Nothing says the Vikings can't still go get Tyler Johnson in the 3rd or 4th ;)
