Camden wrote:Q12543 wrote:Camden wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:I think the 30-something locker room leadership thing is way overrated. In any event, the Wolves are beyond that now. KAT and Tyus have been in the League 4 seasons while Wiggins has been in the League 5 seasons. Teague is a long-time 31/32 year old vet and Covington turns 30 this season. Gorgui is going on 30 and has been in the League 6 seasons. The Wolves need talent, preferably young players with lots of upside who could possibly form the core of a contender in a few years.
I think having a vet presence does have value. I would be fine if we added one other guy. On the other hand I'm perfectly fine using that other roster spot for a younger player that could turn into something of value. When Flip brought in some old guys I think that was good
(even if he gave up to much for KG). Back then in theory we had our core. Right now we have Towns and a legit high end vet in Covington and guys that are either question marks (even if they are intriguing talents) or guys that won't be a significant part of the team in the future. Like you said ts not like its a roster full of rookies or something. A number of these guys are now young vets including Towns. It also helps we aren't trying to break in some young PG into the rotation.
That Thaddeus Young for Kevin Garnett trade paired with the Adreian Payne trade were two of the dumbest moves Flip Saunders made during that run as POBO. God rest his soul and it is truly unfortunate that he passed, but he was also not the executive that was going to resurrect this franchise. We think of Thibodeau as old school, but Saunders was twice as bad in that regard and way worse in letting his emotions get the best of him!
At least he picked KAT over Okafor. Phew!...That one had me worried for a while leading up to the draft even though it seemed like an absolute no-brainer to the majority of us.
To say I was worried would be an understatement. Remember, all we heard for the majority of the time leading up to the draft was that Flip Saunders was all-in on Jahlil Okafor as the best player in the class. And some here didn't disagree with him -- not pointing fingers. Rumor has it that a single private workout with Karl-Anthony Towns changed Saunders' mind. Even if that is true, that makes my skin crawl knowing an executive would let a private workout hold that much weight in the draft process, especially when dealing with the No. 1 overall pick. That would be dismissing a ridiculous amount of data/actual game footage, assuming the scouting department was doing their job. Perhaps that'd be acceptable in the 90s, but not in the 2010s. I'm glad he got the pick right, but holy moly.
Flip was not a good NBA executive. Trading down rather than taking McCollum was a bad decision and I said so at the time. But to be fair, Flip told me he like McCollum a lot and passed on him for medical reasons (his foot). Then Flip traded down and took Bazz instead of the Greek Freak. Again, I thought that was a big mistake although I'll admit I didn't predict Giannis would turn out to be as good as he's become. On this one, Flip doesn't get a pass from me. When I confronted him on the Bazz pick, he vigorously defended it and predicted that Bazz would become at least a solid starter. I liked the Gorgui pick at the time, but to then sell the 27th pick for cash, especially when Gobert was available, was about as misguided as it gets. That was his worst move. Runner up for worst move on Flip's watch was trading a future 1st for Payne.
On the flip side (pun intended), Flip handled the Love situation well and ended up making what seemed like a very smart deal at the time, getting Wiggins and Bennett, although with a pick he swapped for Thaddeus Young. I thought LaVine was a really good pick. Flip tried to trade up for Oladipo and after a slow start, Oladipo developed into the sort of player Flip thought he would be. Flip also make the right pick at #1 the next year with KAT. On the Okafor thing, I can say with confidence that it wasn't just that private workout. I had an email exchange with Flip on KAT and Okafor. He liked Okafor a lot, but his decision to take KAT was based on a lot more than that private workout. Flip detailed for me all his reasons for taking KAT and those reasons went well beyond what he saw in that private workout. I wish I still had the email as a keepsake. In the end, as Flip put it in his email to me, the decision to take KAT wasn't close. I don't have a problem with KG deal. I think KG coming here helped KAT and ignited the fan base.
Flip made some good moves and some bad ones. Overall, he brought a great positive, open fun culture to the organization. And he left the organization with an excellent core to build around with KAT, Wiggins and LaVine. We'll never know what Flip would have done with Wiggins. I think he would have traded Wiggins when he still had value. I based that on reports of Flip's frustration with Wiggins lack of motor and intensity in practice long before Wiggins developed a public reputation along those lines. Flip was emotional, but he wasn't sentimental either. He would have been very comfortable moving Wiggins if he thought it would help the team.
I won't try to compare the PBO tenures of Flip and Thibodeau. I wouldn't give either one a high rating. But if given the choice between the two, I'd take Flip in a nanosecond. I sure hope Rosas is better than both. :)
