bleedspeed177 wrote:Didn't hear that about Lewis. Would they consider trading Buxton before Rosario?
Yeah was listening to Gleeman and he said scouts are pretty much split on Lewis sticking at SS. I would take 3 years of 25 year old Buxton over 3 years of 27 year old of Rosario. I like Rosario flare but the man puts up empty stats just like Wiggins.
Stats of the Day on how Eddie Rosario. Since June 16th he's had 4 walks. Yes only 4 and one of those intentional and one was from the other night where they did the old intentional unintentional walk. He's swinging at almost 50% of balls out the strike zone. Yes he's one of the best bad ball hitters I've ever seen but he's been in league what 6 years now get some plate discipline.
Roy Smalley has said Rosario had a better plan of what he was swinging at and I believe that included last year but early on he was doing well. Regardless of walks he isn't doing as well. My brother wonders about his ankle and there he can push off that like he normally would. Yes guys are signed up but it was less than 2 weeks ago I saw him come around 3rd with a hitch in his giddy up. Regardless he has just been a power hitter that's in for a couple months. Hopefully he gets healthy and on a hot streak going into the playoffs. Sometimes those bad ball hitters have a certain value in Playoff games
Saying Rosario is putting up empty stats seems pretty harsh. Now on the other hand what are you willing to pay him? This team's outfielders are an interesting bunch. A few months ago Kepler was the I derwhelomg guy and now he looks terrific and locked in for a very reasonable deal. Before Rosario broke out a couple years ago he was a trade candidate.
I don't watch entire games but I personally don't worry about Polonco's defense. Even if it was a bit worrisome his bat makes up for it. Where else is he gonna play? If Lewis forces your hand that's fine a 300+ hitting SS would command a massive return especially signed to the deal Polonco is on.
Edit: I said Rosario was just a power hitter the past 2 months and that isn't even really that true.
Rosario has 3 years left of arbitration. It would be interesting to know what the trade market would be for him although that's not something I'm really excited about though I know he is a flawed player.
Sorry monster you won't change my mind on this. Rosario talent level is the most over blowin on the whole roster because people love him. Maybe Wiggins isn't a fair comparison but Ricky Rubio is and I'm a Rubio guy.
Aaron Hicks 2017
131 G 480 ABS 90 R 119 Hits 27HR 79RBI 248 AVG .366 OBP .833 OPS
So he's basically going to out hit Aaron Hicks by his best year. I choose Aaron to show how good a line up can help a player. As I highlighted above the OBP atrocious number for a 4 hitter. Also he is below average in OPS because of his low walk rate. I would make argument that Aaron
Hicks is the better player because of his defense when both are healthy.
The Yankees gave Hicks 7 years 70 Mil
Edit: On Kepler I've always been willing to trade
him because I never saw him hitting left handed pitching like he has this year. But I've always said there's never been a prospect like him from Europe so his development cycle is way different than most players.
You are more preaching to the choir here. I've been watching condensed games where "who would you rather have up here than Rosario" things have been said on the broadcast. Lol That said I don't really know how Rosario is viewed overall. I know what my take is. He is a good player but isn't performing at a high level the last few months and I wouldn't put him as a core player. Where he deserves to hit is up for debate especially if we are actually healthy and other guys perform. He is probably something of a much more likeable much less whacky Puig. I'd be happy to pay Rosario 10 million a year but probably not for 7 years! If Rosario wants a lot more than that he can just keep getting his arbitration raises* and I'll wait till either an obvious deal to trade him comes along and/or an obvious replacement comes along. The Twins will have some hard decisions to make coming up. They aren't going to get them all correct.
*is there a good place to go to get an explanation of how the numbers for arbitration players is set? Is there some sort of formula or is it fairly subjective?
I'm not saying we have anyone better right now but we could sign a veteran in the offseason and wait two months for Killrioff to be ready next year.
The beat way is to find someone with stats like Rosario and look at sportrac and see what they got. There's not a really good way :/
Yeah plus so many guys are like Rosario or even cheaper because they haven't hit FA or got bigger deals. Marwin is making 12 million per year and his value is him being a pretty good bat and above average defensive player at what like 5 positions? That adds value. It would be interesting to know what the Twins have offered Rosario. I'd guess I have a pretty decent idea based on what Kepler and Polonco got.
The next question really though is what are you going to get for Rosario in a trade? Prospects? How good are they? Part of a package for a starter? This team could have traded Dozier at one point when his value was really high. What did teams actually offer? It seems we have a good idea what the Dodgers offered that offseason with DeLeon or whatever that pitcher was and it simply wasn't enough. Was the return for Dozier never really that awesome considering his value? Now don't get me wrong Dozier had more value for a few seasons than Rosario does now. Realistically what do the Twins need to get back for him to make sense to deal a pretty good starting OF that even though flawed has come up through your system and all that stuff? Idk obviously some player offered for Dozier over the years is going to be a pretty good player but there was probably like what 100 various prospects offered for Dozier over the years those percentages aren't fair. Smeltzer and Luke Raley didn't exactly seem like knock your socks off return for Dozier but Smeltzer has already shown some promise and even helped the team this year. Raley was hitting before he got hurt but now they have to decide whether to protect him. There is a tough line between holding onto a guy for too long/falling in love with prospects and holding onto a guy and getting the value now. It's not like the NBA where if you don't trade Kemba and he walks for nothing you are pretty much just screwed.
Meanwhile Royce Lewis is going to be playing AFL league.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Didn't hear that about Lewis. Would they consider trading Buxton before Rosario?
Yeah was listening to Gleeman and he said scouts are pretty much split on Lewis sticking at SS. I would take 3 years of 25 year old Buxton over 3 years of 27 year old of Rosario. I like Rosario flare but the man puts up empty stats just like Wiggins.
Stats of the Day on how Eddie Rosario. Since June 16th he's had 4 walks. Yes only 4 and one of those intentional and one was from the other night where they did the old intentional unintentional walk. He's swinging at almost 50% of balls out the strike zone. Yes he's one of the best bad ball hitters I've ever seen but he's been in league what 6 years now get some plate discipline.
Roy Smalley has said Rosario had a better plan of what he was swinging at and I believe that included last year but early on he was doing well. Regardless of walks he isn't doing as well. My brother wonders about his ankle and there he can push off that like he normally would. Yes guys are signed up but it was less than 2 weeks ago I saw him come around 3rd with a hitch in his giddy up. Regardless he has just been a power hitter that's in for a couple months. Hopefully he gets healthy and on a hot streak going into the playoffs. Sometimes those bad ball hitters have a certain value in Playoff games
Saying Rosario is putting up empty stats seems pretty harsh. Now on the other hand what are you willing to pay him? This team's outfielders are an interesting bunch. A few months ago Kepler was the I derwhelomg guy and now he looks terrific and locked in for a very reasonable deal. Before Rosario broke out a couple years ago he was a trade candidate.
I don't watch entire games but I personally don't worry about Polonco's defense. Even if it was a bit worrisome his bat makes up for it. Where else is he gonna play? If Lewis forces your hand that's fine a 300+ hitting SS would command a massive return especially signed to the deal Polonco is on.
Edit: I said Rosario was just a power hitter the past 2 months and that isn't even really that true.
Rosario has 3 years left of arbitration. It would be interesting to know what the trade market would be for him although that's not something I'm really excited about though I know he is a flawed player.
Sorry monster you won't change my mind on this. Rosario talent level is the most over blowin on the whole roster because people love him. Maybe Wiggins isn't a fair comparison but Ricky Rubio is and I'm a Rubio guy.
Aaron Hicks 2017
131 G 480 ABS 90 R 119 Hits 27HR 79RBI 248 AVG .366 OBP .833 OPS
So he's basically going to out hit Aaron Hicks by his best year. I choose Aaron to show how good a line up can help a player. As I highlighted above the OBP atrocious number for a 4 hitter. Also he is below average in OPS because of his low walk rate. I would make argument that Aaron
Hicks is the better player because of his defense when both are healthy.
The Yankees gave Hicks 7 years 70 Mil
Edit: On Kepler I've always been willing to trade
him because I never saw him hitting left handed pitching like he has this year. But I've always said there's never been a prospect like him from Europe so his development cycle is way different than most players.
You are more preaching to the choir here. I've been watching condensed games where "who would you rather have up here than Rosario" things have been said on the broadcast. Lol That said I don't really know how Rosario is viewed overall. I know what my take is. He is a good player but isn't performing at a high level the last few months and I wouldn't put him as a core player. Where he deserves to hit is up for debate especially if we are actually healthy and other guys perform. He is probably something of a much more likeable much less whacky Puig. I'd be happy to pay Rosario 10 million a year but probably not for 7 years! If Rosario wants a lot more than that he can just keep getting his arbitration raises* and I'll wait till either an obvious deal to trade him comes along and/or an obvious replacement comes along. The Twins will have some hard decisions to make coming up. They aren't going to get them all correct.
*is there a good place to go to get an explanation of how the numbers for arbitration players is set? Is there some sort of formula or is it fairly subjective?
I'm not saying we have anyone better right now but we could sign a veteran in the offseason and wait two months for Killrioff to be ready next year.
The beat way is to find someone with stats like Rosario and look at sportrac and see what they got. There's not a really good way :/
Yeah plus so many guys are like Rosario or even cheaper because they haven't hit FA or got bigger deals. Marwin is making 12 million per year and his value is him being a pretty good bat and above average defensive player at what like 5 positions? That adds value. It would be interesting to know what the Twins have offered Rosario. I'd guess I have a pretty decent idea based on what Kepler and Polonco got.
The next question really though is what are you going to get for Rosario in a trade? Prospects? How good are they? Part of a package for a starter? This team could have traded Dozier at one point when his value was really high. What did teams actually offer? It seems we have a good idea what the Dodgers offered that offseason with DeLeon or whatever that pitcher was and it simply wasn't enough. Was the return for Dozier never really that awesome considering his value? Now don't get me wrong Dozier had more value for a few seasons than Rosario does now. Realistically what do the Twins need to get back for him to make sense to deal a pretty good starting OF that even though flawed has come up through your system and all that stuff? Idk obviously some player offered for Dozier over the years is going to be a pretty good player but there was probably like what 100 various prospects offered for Dozier over the years those percentages aren't fair. Smeltzer and Luke Raley didn't exactly seem like knock your socks off return for Dozier but Smeltzer has already shown some promise and even helped the team this year. Raley was hitting before he got hurt but now they have to decide whether to protect him. There is a tough line between holding onto a guy for too long/falling in love with prospects and holding onto a guy and getting the value now. It's not like the NBA where if you don't trade Kemba and he walks for nothing you are pretty much just screwed.
Meanwhile Royce Lewis is going to be playing AFL league.
I have no idea how quantify his value because he's an outfielder. The reason why Dozier gained so much interest because he was putting up ridiculous stats at 2nd. You've to remember Leon was top 30 prospect and #3 in the dodger organization back then. My guess is he would command a top 50 prospect because of this 3 years of arbitration.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Didn't hear that about Lewis. Would they consider trading Buxton before Rosario?
Yeah was listening to Gleeman and he said scouts are pretty much split on Lewis sticking at SS. I would take 3 years of 25 year old Buxton over 3 years of 27 year old of Rosario. I like Rosario flare but the man puts up empty stats just like Wiggins.
Stats of the Day on how Eddie Rosario. Since June 16th he's had 4 walks. Yes only 4 and one of those intentional and one was from the other night where they did the old intentional unintentional walk. He's swinging at almost 50% of balls out the strike zone. Yes he's one of the best bad ball hitters I've ever seen but he's been in league what 6 years now get some plate discipline.
Roy Smalley has said Rosario had a better plan of what he was swinging at and I believe that included last year but early on he was doing well. Regardless of walks he isn't doing as well. My brother wonders about his ankle and there he can push off that like he normally would. Yes guys are signed up but it was less than 2 weeks ago I saw him come around 3rd with a hitch in his giddy up. Regardless he has just been a power hitter that's in for a couple months. Hopefully he gets healthy and on a hot streak going into the playoffs. Sometimes those bad ball hitters have a certain value in Playoff games
Saying Rosario is putting up empty stats seems pretty harsh. Now on the other hand what are you willing to pay him? This team's outfielders are an interesting bunch. A few months ago Kepler was the I derwhelomg guy and now he looks terrific and locked in for a very reasonable deal. Before Rosario broke out a couple years ago he was a trade candidate.
I don't watch entire games but I personally don't worry about Polonco's defense. Even if it was a bit worrisome his bat makes up for it. Where else is he gonna play? If Lewis forces your hand that's fine a 300+ hitting SS would command a massive return especially signed to the deal Polonco is on.
Edit: I said Rosario was just a power hitter the past 2 months and that isn't even really that true.
Rosario has 3 years left of arbitration. It would be interesting to know what the trade market would be for him although that's not something I'm really excited about though I know he is a flawed player.
Sorry monster you won't change my mind on this. Rosario talent level is the most over blowin on the whole roster because people love him. Maybe Wiggins isn't a fair comparison but Ricky Rubio is and I'm a Rubio guy.
Aaron Hicks 2017
131 G 480 ABS 90 R 119 Hits 27HR 79RBI 248 AVG .366 OBP .833 OPS
So he's basically going to out hit Aaron Hicks by his best year. I choose Aaron to show how good a line up can help a player. As I highlighted above the OBP atrocious number for a 4 hitter. Also he is below average in OPS because of his low walk rate. I would make argument that Aaron
Hicks is the better player because of his defense when both are healthy.
The Yankees gave Hicks 7 years 70 Mil
Edit: On Kepler I've always been willing to trade
him because I never saw him hitting left handed pitching like he has this year. But I've always said there's never been a prospect like him from Europe so his development cycle is way different than most players.
You are more preaching to the choir here. I've been watching condensed games where "who would you rather have up here than Rosario" things have been said on the broadcast. Lol That said I don't really know how Rosario is viewed overall. I know what my take is. He is a good player but isn't performing at a high level the last few months and I wouldn't put him as a core player. Where he deserves to hit is up for debate especially if we are actually healthy and other guys perform. He is probably something of a much more likeable much less whacky Puig. I'd be happy to pay Rosario 10 million a year but probably not for 7 years! If Rosario wants a lot more than that he can just keep getting his arbitration raises* and I'll wait till either an obvious deal to trade him comes along and/or an obvious replacement comes along. The Twins will have some hard decisions to make coming up. They aren't going to get them all correct.
*is there a good place to go to get an explanation of how the numbers for arbitration players is set? Is there some sort of formula or is it fairly subjective?
I'm not saying we have anyone better right now but we could sign a veteran in the offseason and wait two months for Killrioff to be ready next year.
The beat way is to find someone with stats like Rosario and look at sportrac and see what they got. There's not a really good way :/
Yeah plus so many guys are like Rosario or even cheaper because they haven't hit FA or got bigger deals. Marwin is making 12 million per year and his value is him being a pretty good bat and above average defensive player at what like 5 positions? That adds value. It would be interesting to know what the Twins have offered Rosario. I'd guess I have a pretty decent idea based on what Kepler and Polonco got.
The next question really though is what are you going to get for Rosario in a trade? Prospects? How good are they? Part of a package for a starter? This team could have traded Dozier at one point when his value was really high. What did teams actually offer? It seems we have a good idea what the Dodgers offered that offseason with DeLeon or whatever that pitcher was and it simply wasn't enough. Was the return for Dozier never really that awesome considering his value? Now don't get me wrong Dozier had more value for a few seasons than Rosario does now. Realistically what do the Twins need to get back for him to make sense to deal a pretty good starting OF that even though flawed has come up through your system and all that stuff? Idk obviously some player offered for Dozier over the years is going to be a pretty good player but there was probably like what 100 various prospects offered for Dozier over the years those percentages aren't fair. Smeltzer and Luke Raley didn't exactly seem like knock your socks off return for Dozier but Smeltzer has already shown some promise and even helped the team this year. Raley was hitting before he got hurt but now they have to decide whether to protect him. There is a tough line between holding onto a guy for too long/falling in love with prospects and holding onto a guy and getting the value now. It's not like the NBA where if you don't trade Kemba and he walks for nothing you are pretty much just screwed.
Meanwhile Royce Lewis is going to be playing AFL league.
I have no idea how quantify his value because he's an outfielder. The reason why Dozier gained so much interest because he was putting up ridiculous stats at 2nd. You've to remember Leon was top 30 prospect and #3 in the dodger organization back then. My guess is he would command a top 50 prospect because of this 3 years of arbitration.
bleedspeed177 wrote:When Cruz plays this is a different team.
Who is a better fielder at SS? Royce Lewis or Polanco? Can either play 3B with Sano sliding to 1B.
Not sure moving Royce to CF makes sense unless you don't think Buxton is the future.
The Twins have a bunch of other young guys that can play 1b too...maybe need to play there long term if you know what I mean. The longer Sano can reasonably play there the more valueable he is.
The reality is 4-5 months ago most of us barely knew who Arraez was and now the guy looks like the Twins starting 2nd basemen or a fixture in the lineup for the next 10 years or whatever. It's fun to contemplate the future but we don't know how it's going to play out. The fun part about baseball is there are so many players than can pan out.
bleedspeed177 wrote:When Cruz plays this is a different team.
Who is a better fielder at SS? Royce Lewis or Polanco? Can either play 3B with Sano sliding to 1B.
Not sure moving Royce to CF makes sense unless you don't think Buxton is the future.
The Twins have a bunch of other young guys that can play 1b too...maybe need to play there long term if you know what I mean. The longer Sano can reasonably play there the more valueable he is.
The reality is 4-5 months ago most of us barely knew who Arraez was and now the guy looks like the Twins starting 2nd basemen or a fixture in the lineup for the next 10 years or whatever. It's fun to contemplate the future but we don't know how it's going to play out. The fun part about baseball is there are so many players than can pan out.
I agree Monster. Who knows where the team will be in 3 years. Doesn't matter if we have below average infield if you have the best defensive outfield. Cause I would argue with Buxton in they have best defensive outfield and if Lewis plays LF I would assume he's just as good as Rosario. What if in two-three years they trade Polanco when Lewis is ready? Nelson Cruz is going to eventually lose to Father Time does Polanco or Sano become a DH or a First Basemen? All questions to figure out later. All I know is all our core players are locked up for 3 years and we still have Cruz and Marwin for another year. That's why it's crucial for them to go get two starting pitchers this offseason. Yet the free agent market is pretty dry this year that's why I think we need to trade for someone. I think you could do Eddie and prospect for Ray.
Berrios
Ray
Resign Odo
Graterol
Smeltzer/Thorpe or design Big Mike
I think we need a true ACE on this team. I wouldn't trade our top 2 starting pitching prospects for one though. Royce's value drops a lot in my eyes if he is not playing SS. I reminds me of Mauer moving from catcher to 1B.
Cleveland has how many top level starting pitchers? They traded away one in Bauer. I'm not against trading for an Ace but I want to see the Twins actually develop another top of the rotation pitcher of their own. That's part of why Falvey was hired here. Cleveland said they were going to miss him and good gravy they just keep turning out starters.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Who would start in LF in 2020?
I think we need a true ACE on this team. I wouldn't trade our top 2 starting pitching prospects for one though. Royce's value drops a lot in my eyes if he is not playing SS. I reminds me of Mauer moving from catcher to 1B.
Sign a veteran and wait two months till end of May or begging of June and call up Kirilloff. Same thing the Indians did with Mecardo this year.
