Re: Are you ready for 3-0- Pelicans rematch GDT
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:30 pm
Jester1534 wrote:FNG wrote:Q12543 wrote:Camden wrote:No, my stance is that plus-minus, net rating, etc. should be used in conjunction with other data that we have available as it can be highly misleading on its own. Those statistics should never be the sole factor in determining whether a player provides value on the court or not. It's just not an all-encompassing or comprehensive stat, no matter how vehemently you want it to be, because it will always lack certain context of every game. Namely, it doesn't account for the quality of teammates, the quality of opposing players, the player's role, or the game situation/flow. This has been my actual position for quite some time now.
With that said, I don't think you in particular use these metrics irresponsibly, Q. I do think you tend to use it as just a piece of the puzzle versus a one-and-done evaluation. Kudos for that. My main issue is when these numbers end up being the entirety of the argument for or against a player. And yes, that has happened here many times.
Fair enough. I do think your logical take here though gets clouded when discussing DLO. He's been in many different contexts with many different coaches and teams and just never does well with this stat. After multiple seasons in the negative (not just net rating, but net on/off rating), that becomes more about the player and not the other variables. Hopefully that finally changes this season.
Yeah, I just made that same point in tonight's GDT. I fully agree with Cam that stats need to be taken in context with other stats to be more meaningful, and naturally some of us are going to favor stats that our favorite players excel in. I admit that my admiration for Ricky Rubio is likely why I've always favored assist to turnover ratio because he is regularly in the top 5 in the league. But I also recognize he has significant flaws in his game.
I don't think it's logical to brush aside net ratings, +/- and on/off numbers when evaluating a certain player, because over time winning players are going to excel in these numbers and losing players are going to struggle. I mentioned in another thread that Wig and DLo might be the only current max players who have never had a positive net rating in a season (and nobody has found another example, so I think I am correct), and that simply can't be ignored when evaluating those two players. It's why the two players will be always linked unless one of them becomes more effective.
Cam, we get that you don't like net rating and +/-, but I asked you in another thread what are your favorite stats for evaluating the effectiveness of a player. You have an excellent (albeit often prejudiced) basketball mind, and I honestly want to know. For me I admit I look hard at TS%, net ratings, various defensive measures (although they are probably the least reliable, so I usually end up with eye test in evaluating a player's defense) and A:To ratio for PGs. How do you evaluate a player statistically?
This could all be over if you have a true WAR stat like baseball :) the only stat that matters in baseball lol
Ha, I know you're a big WAR guy, jester. I like it too, but also have recently become fond of BABIP...it's quite revealing in evaluating Kepler.
But I get what Abe is saying about stats spoiling baseball. There's a huge cohort of skinny nerds who never played the game who put out countless podcasts analyzing baseball to death...I won't watch them. I still mostly love baseball because of the pure beauty of the game.