The Case for Towns

[60WinTim]

I did not hear Flip with Sid this morning, and the podcast is not available, yet. But I am going to listen to it when it's available (tomorrow I assume). But here is one comment on it:

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Flip talking Towns to Sid. Mentions ball-handling, versatility, shooting, defense and charisma as reasons to take him.

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Made comment that Towns was "by far" the best two-way player in college basketball. That should remove any doubt anyone could've had.

[TheFuture]

I've been a Towns guy since the tourney. But I think this board overrates his defense somewhat, and underrates his offense. He can surely defend in the NBA, but I don't think he's a shoo-in to be a dominant defender at the next level. His offense on the other hand really intrigues me. He has a post game. He can shoot free throws. Apparently he's a 3 point dynamo just waiting to be unleashed. He should be able to flourish on the fast break. He has a great combination of size and athleticism. Why can't he become a 25 point per game scorer? I'm certainly not going to plug him in a just a decent offensive player.

Who is underrating his offense? Most the posts and articles I have read speak as though he's a surefire stretch 5 from a workout video and his mystical high school stats. He can become a 25 pt/game scorer but theoretically so could Kaminsky (hell he actually shot some 3s in a game). Kat has a lot to prove offensively before there is any tangible evidence that he'll get there. I hope he does it, but based on what's there currently I think hes being overrated personally.

We're not reading the same stuff then. Most of the forecasts I see for him say he should be a 17-9 type guy. And on the board, it seems like great defensive play is a given. I think he was a good, not great defender at Kentucky. Of course he has the raw tools to be great on both ends of the floor.

Versatility is nice, but what does he do really well offensively? Players don't traditionally dink and dunk to 25 PPG's. There's a degree of offense that they create themselves to get to that kind of elite average. The top scoring bigs in the league each have an area on the court they dominate. Dirk has the turnaround jumper. Aldridge lives in the mid post face up game. Griffin takes his guys off the dribble. Love got to the free throw line a lot for a big guy who hit them at a good clip. Cousins bullies guys on the block.

My question is what is Towns' bread and butter going to be? Every great scorer has a bread and butter along with the versatility to score in other ways. I'm hearing a lot of things Towns can do, but not many that he's going to be really good at outside of transition which isn't a big enough part of the game to fall back on. Okafor has his post game and can develop enough versatility to offset his bread and butter. That's why I think the numbers are lower offensively for Towns. Good at many, master of none. You have to be a master of something to get to 20+ PPG's.

I agree with what you're saying here. But I would counter by saying no one knows what COULD be his bread and butter because of the team he played on in college. No one was going to be given enough opportunity to stand out on that team. For al we know Karl could be impossible to guard without fouling in the post.

I'm so sick of all this COULD be stuff related to Towns. The reality is they didn't win the college championship. Like I said in a different thread, Calipari is in the business of winning titles in collegiate play. If Towns COULD be dominant, then don't you think we would have seen him get the ball against Wisconsin plenty more? He was even protected against guarding Kaminsky. Everyone says he's a transitional type defensive player, yet he wasn't even the best defensive big on his own team, and people even have questions about WCS's defensive projections at the next level, i.e. low post D. The only game I saw Towns relied upon offensively was in the Notre Dame game, and that was when a 6'9 guy was guarding him. A guy who was nothing special on defense. If the Kentucky team was so dominant as a whole that Towns didn't see 30 mins a game, then wouldn't it make sense that they would run the table to the title? Yes, their depth got them far. Their depth that didn't have a star who showed himself. If there was a superstar on that team paired with that depth, nobody could have touched them. Town's does not have a bread and butter. He is a project. He has promising tools, but not one skillset is set in stone superior to any of his top competition. Yes, he had decent rebounding, scoring, and blocking numbers when you take his minutes/stats and times them by 2. But don't we all agree that every facet of basketball comes easier when you're well rested and your competition isn't? I'll be happy with Towns as a pick, but let's stop this nonsense about him being a godsend and changing the shape of this franchise. So far I've heard he's going to be a low post, mid range, 3pt, and transition threat, as well as a rebounding and blocking machine when he showed very minimal of these skills in college. Oh, and he dribbles and passes very well. As far as I understand, that means he does every single thing great, right?

Who is this guy? LeBronx2 + 4inches??

I don't even expect Towns to have a big impact the first year honestly. He's one of the 2-3 year projects who makes it or busts out. He's the high risk-high reward. He doesn't have a fiery edge. He's not a give me the ball i'm going to dominate you type. He has tools, but I worry about the mindset. I don't see a star upstairs. Like I said in the same other thread, look back and you'll see I was on the Towns bandwagon right along with Camden, but it has gotten a bit out of hand here.

[Coolbreeze44]

oooooooo, Kentucky lost 1 game. Let's not act like they weren't successful with Cal's platoon system. They were one of the best college teams of the last 25 years. Could they have been better playing a shorter rotation? Probably, but that isn't how you keep 9 McDonald's All Americans happy, and then keep them coming to your program year after year.

I don't think anyone on this board, including myself, knows how good Towns can be. But if you listen to what the people closest to the game are saying, he could be anything from a very good player to a phenom. The point being made was that his offensive upside is very high. But this is not an exact science, and we are just going to have to wait and see.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

"Okafor has his post game and can develop enough versatility to offset his bread and butter"

Care to elaborate on/unpack that statement Khans? (not trying to sound like an asshole just curious what you meant). Are you referencing passing, defense, outside shooting or something else? I haven't really heard or seen much of anything that shows me that Okafor will be able to hit an outside shot, not sold on his defense although I've seen a clip or two of him moving pretty well when he was trying on D, passing game seems to be solid nothing special though.

To me the biggest red flag on Okafor is his FT%, being that his greatest skill is his offensive efficiency/ability to get a bucket can be rendered useless if you have to take him out of the game if he continues to shoot poorly from the FT line with the hack-a strategy. Not to mention if he catches it in deep just foul the sh*t out of him and make him earn it at the line which will also reduce his offensive efficiency.

I agree with LST, we don't necessarily need a go-to/#1 option on offense, we need is the best all around player that will give us the greatest chance to win. To me that player is Towns, defensively he should be solid to great (not DPOY but can anchor a D) and offensive versatility opens up a lot of matchup options & advantages that help win you playoff series

While the volume isn't there look at the numbers (FG%) for Okafor from the right elbow and off the PnR in this article comparing the two: http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/2015/06/karl-anthony-towns-vs-jahlil-okafor-one-mans-opinion/
. 58% from the right elbow, 100% in the PnR, 90.4% off of cuts, 64% off put backs while being a better offensive rebounder than Towns. I might blow a gasket if another person questions Okafor's offensive capabilities. It's ridiculous at this point in my mind. That is his elite skill. Putting the ball in the basket. Stop trying to poke holes in it. His only real offensive weakness is his free throw shooting. He didn't take enough midrange shots to say he's a bad midrange shooter. 58% from the elbow shows potential even with a small volume.

[krump [enjin:13856285]]

I've been a Towns guy since the tourney. But I think this board overrates his defense somewhat, and underrates his offense. He can surely defend in the NBA, but I don't think he's a shoo-in to be a dominant defender at the next level. His offense on the other hand really intrigues me. He has a post game. He can shoot free throws. Apparently he's a 3 point dynamo just waiting to be unleashed. He should be able to flourish on the fast break. He has a great combination of size and athleticism. Why can't he become a 25 point per game scorer? I'm certainly not going to plug him in a just a decent offensive player.

Who is underrating his offense? Most the posts and articles I have read speak as though he's a surefire stretch 5 from a workout video and his mystical high school stats. He can become a 25 pt/game scorer but theoretically so could Kaminsky (hell he actually shot some 3s in a game). Kat has a lot to prove offensively before there is any tangible evidence that he'll get there. I hope he does it, but based on what's there currently I think hes being overrated personally.

We're not reading the same stuff then. Most of the forecasts I see for him say he should be a 17-9 type guy. And on the board, it seems like great defensive play is a given. I think he was a good, not great defender at Kentucky. Of course he has the raw tools to be great on both ends of the floor.

Versatility is nice, but what does he do really well offensively? Players don't traditionally dink and dunk to 25 PPG's. There's a degree of offense that they create themselves to get to that kind of elite average. The top scoring bigs in the league each have an area on the court they dominate. Dirk has the turnaround jumper. Aldridge lives in the mid post face up game. Griffin takes his guys off the dribble. Love got to the free throw line a lot for a big guy who hit them at a good clip. Cousins bullies guys on the block.

My question is what is Towns' bread and butter going to be? Every great scorer has a bread and butter along with the versatility to score in other ways. I'm hearing a lot of things Towns can do, but not many that he's going to be really good at outside of transition which isn't a big enough part of the game to fall back on. Okafor has his post game and can develop enough versatility to offset his bread and butter. That's why I think the numbers are lower offensively for Towns. Good at many, master of none. You have to be a master of something to get to 20+ PPG's.

I agree with what you're saying here. But I would counter by saying no one knows what COULD be his bread and butter because of the team he played on in college. No one was going to be given enough opportunity to stand out on that team. For al we know Karl could be impossible to guard without fouling in the post.

I'm so sick of all this COULD be stuff related to Towns. The reality is they didn't win the college championship. Like I said in a different thread, Calipari is in the business of winning titles in collegiate play. If Towns COULD be dominant, then don't you think we would have seen him get the ball against Wisconsin plenty more? He was even protected against guarding Kaminsky. Everyone says he's a transitional type defensive player, yet he wasn't even the best defensive big on his own team, and people even have questions about WCS's defensive projections at the next level, i.e. low post D. The only game I saw Towns relied upon offensively was in the Notre Dame game, and that was when a 6'9 guy was guarding him. A guy who was nothing special on defense. If the Kentucky team was so dominant as a whole that Towns didn't see 30 mins a game, then wouldn't it make sense that they would run the table to the title? Yes, their depth got them far. Their depth that didn't have a star who showed himself. If there was a superstar on that team paired with that depth, nobody could have touched them. Town's does not have a bread and butter. He is a project. He has promising tools, but not one skillset is set in stone superior to any of his top competition. Yes, he had decent rebounding, scoring, and blocking numbers when you take his minutes/stats and times them by 2. But don't we all agree that every facet of basketball comes easier when you're well rested and your competition isn't? I'll be happy with Towns as a pick, but let's stop this nonsense about him being a godsend and changing the shape of this franchise. So far I've heard he's going to be a low post, mid range, 3pt, and transition threat, as well as a rebounding and blocking machine when he showed very minimal of these skills in college. Oh, and he dribbles and passes very well. As far as I understand, that means he does every single thing great, right?

Who is this guy? LeBronx2 + 4inches??

I don't even expect Towns to have a big impact the first year honestly. He's one of the 2-3 year projects who makes it or busts out. He's the high risk-high reward. He doesn't have a fiery edge. He's not a give me the ball i'm going to dominate you type. He has tools, but I worry about the mindset. I don't see a star upstairs. Like I said in the same other thread, look back and you'll see I was on the Towns bandwagon right along with Camden, but it has gotten a bit out of hand here.

Why do you worry about his mindset? His attitude appears to be a strength to me, and at the end of the year it looked like he was showing quite a bit of tenacity during the final stretch.

[Phenom]

I did not hear Flip with Sid this morning, and the podcast is not available, yet. But I am going to listen to it when it's available (tomorrow I assume). But here is one comment on it:

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Flip talking Towns to Sid. Mentions ball-handling, versatility, shooting, defense and charisma as reasons to take him.

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Made comment that Towns was "by far" the best two-way player in college basketball. That should remove any doubt anyone could've had.

This is the reason I was immediately convinced that Towns would be the pick. Flip spouts off about obtaining two way guys all the time. An argument could be made that he could take Okafor and get two way guys somewhere else but why not get the best two way players that he can? He can't afford to let the opportunity to get a blue chip two way player slip away.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I did not hear Flip with Sid this morning, and the podcast is not available, yet. But I am going to listen to it when it's available (tomorrow I assume). But here is one comment on it:

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Flip talking Towns to Sid. Mentions ball-handling, versatility, shooting, defense and charisma as reasons to take him.

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Made comment that Towns was "by far" the best two-way player in college basketball. That should remove any doubt anyone could've had.

That's okay, Tim...I'm pretty sure Sid didn't hear Flip either :)

[60WinTim]

That's okay, Tim...I'm pretty sure Sid didn't hear Flip either :)

The podcast is up. Yeah, it's down right torture listening to Sid attempt to conduct an interview these days. Earlier in the show Glen Taylor was on. It was amazing how lucid Glen was! I don't know if it was Sid making Glen seem so sharp, or maybe he has more wits about him in the morning!

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I did not hear Flip with Sid this morning, and the podcast is not available, yet. But I am going to listen to it when it's available (tomorrow I assume). But here is one comment on it:

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Flip talking Towns to Sid. Mentions ball-handling, versatility, shooting, defense and charisma as reasons to take him.

Punch-Drunk Wolves ?@PDWolves 7h7 hours ago
Made comment that Towns was "by far" the best two-way player in college basketball. That should remove any doubt anyone could've had.

This is the reason I was immediately convinced that Towns would be the pick. Flip spouts off about obtaining two way guys all the time. An argument could be made that he could take Okafor and get two way guys somewhere else but why not get the best two way players that he can? He can't afford to let the opportunity to get a blue chip two way player slip away.

I agree, phenom. I think it is even more compelling evidence that Towns is not working out for the Lakers. That decision would be out of character for Towns if the Wolves hadn't made a guarantee to him that they were going to choose him. It takes a lot of the drama away from Thursday night, but I'm okay with that!

[60WinTim]

Yup. I KNOW Flip will take Towns. But there is still plenty of drama left for our 2nd rounders, either with the pick(s) or trade(s)!