Minnesota Sports Forum

I'd be scared if the Spurs said yes to a Leonard deal with us because that would just mean there is something really wrong with the situation either with his health or his mind.

Now that this thread has morphed into an off-season moves thread :), I'll offer my thoughts on the general approach I think we should take.

First, I would take calls on any player, but I would not shop any of the following players unless we get to the trade deadline and need to shake things up: KAT, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson or Jones. In my view these are our core guys who could form the basis for a Wolves team that takes it to the next level next season.

Second, I would actively shop the following players, understanding that it will be challenging to get value in return that makes us better: Gorgui Dieng, Jeff Teague, and Belly (possible sign-and-trade). Gorgui took a step back this season and his contribution to this team doesn't match his contract. I wouldn't look to unload him, but I'd look hard to find a good deal for him. I don't dislike Jeff Teague. I love his effort and he can be a force offensively. But he's a defensive liability on a defensively challenged team and he's just not a natural PG who makes his teammates better. I just don't think he's a good fit for this team. Belly might be too costly to re-sign for what we get from him. There might be a contending team over the cap with a surplus of 3-and-D players that would love to add Belly to their roster through a sign-and-trade. Again, I wouldn't look to unload any of these guys. But I'd actively look for teams that would value them and would, therefore, give us good value in return that would make our team better.

Third, I'd use the full MLE to sign the best two-way wing available unless we acquire one through a trade in which case I'd use the MLE to sign one or two players, one of which should lie the best 3-point shooter on the market.

Fourth, I'd give MGH, Amile Jefferson and Anthony Brown every chance to make our roster and contribute to this team. We absolutely have to start finding and developing talent, even if we can finally become successful with our draft picks.

Fifth, I'd be extremely diligent about drafting the best players available with both our picks (##20 and 46). I'd be willing to deal eithe pick, but only if he is part of a package that brings in a player likely to significantly move the needle for the Wolves.

Note that I didn't say I'd replace Thibs as both head coach and PBO. Well, if up to me I would replace him, but only if I could get a replacement I was certain would be an upgrade. I'll put together that list in another thread. :). In any event, I don't see Glen replacing Thibs this summer, so I'm focused on what Thibs can do as PBO to make this team better.

lipoli390 wrote:Now that this thread has morphed into an off-season moves thread :), I'll offer my thoughts on the general approach I think we should take.

First, I would take calls on any player, but I would not shop any of the following players unless we get to the trade deadline and need to shake things up: KAT, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson or Jones. In my view these are our core guys who could form the basis for a Wolves team that takes it to the next level next season.

Second, I would actively shop the following players, understanding that it will be challenging to get value in return that makes us better: Gorgui Dieng, Jeff Teague, and Belly (possible sign-and-trade). Gorgui took a step back this season and his contribution to this team doesn't match his contract. I wouldn't look to unload him, but I'd look hard to find a good deal for him. I don't dislike Jeff Teague. I love his effort and he can be a force offensively. But he's a defensive liability on a defensively challenged team and he's just not a natural PG who makes his teammates better. I just don't think he's a good fit for this team. Belly might be too costly to re-sign for what we get from him. There might be a contending team over the cap with a surplus of 3-and-D players that would love to add Belly to their roster through a sign-and-trade. Again, I wouldn't look to unload any of these guys. But I'd actively look for teams that would value them and would, therefore, give us good value in return that would make our team better.

Third, I'd use the full MLE to sign the best two-way wing available unless we acquire one through a trade in which case I'd use the MLE to sign one or two players, one of which should lie the best 3-point shooter on the market.

Fourth, I'd give MGH, Amile Jefferson and Anthony Brown every chance to make our roster and contribute to this team. We absolutely have to start finding and developing talent, even if we can finally become successful with our draft picks.

Fifth, I'd be extremely diligent about drafting the best players available with both our picks (##20 and 46). I'd be willing to deal eithe pick, but only if he is part of a package that brings in a player likely to significantly move the needle for the Wolves.

Note that I didn't say I'd replace Thibs as both head coach and PBO. Well, if up to me I would replace him, but only if I could get a replacement I was certain would be an upgrade. I'll put together that list in another thread. :). In any event, I don't see Glen replacing Thibs this summer, so I'm focused on what Thibs can do as PBO to make this team better.

I'm 100% with this plan. Good work Lip.

lipoli390 wrote:Now that this thread has morphed into an off-season moves thread :), I'll offer my thoughts on the general approach I think we should take.

First, I would take calls on any player, but I would not shop any of the following players unless we get to the trade deadline and need to shake things up: KAT, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson or Jones. In my view these are our core guys who could form the basis for a Wolves team that takes it to the next level next season.

Second, I would actively shop the following players, understanding that it will be challenging to get value in return that makes us better: Gorgui Dieng, Jeff Teague, and Belly (possible sign-and-trade). Gorgui took a step back this season and his contribution to this team doesn't match his contract. I wouldn't look to unload him, but I'd look hard to find a good deal for him. I don't dislike Jeff Teague. I love his effort and he can be a force offensively. But he's a defensive liability on a defensively challenged team and he's just not a natural PG who makes his teammates better. I just don't think he's a good fit for this team. Belly might be too costly to re-sign for what we get from him. There might be a contending team over the cap with a surplus of 3-and-D players that would love to add Belly to their roster through a sign-and-trade. Again, I wouldn't look to unload any of these guys. But I'd actively look for teams that would value them and would, therefore, give us good value in return that would make our team better.

Third, I'd use the full MLE to sign the best two-way wing available unless we acquire one through a trade in which case I'd use the MLE to sign one or two players, one of which should lie the best 3-point shooter on the market.

Fourth, I'd give MGH, Amile Jefferson and Anthony Brown every chance to make our roster and contribute to this team. We absolutely have to start finding and developing talent, even if we can finally become successful with our draft picks.

Fifth, I'd be extremely diligent about drafting the best players available with both our picks (##20 and 46). I'd be willing to deal eithe pick, but only if he is part of a package that brings in a player likely to significantly move the needle for the Wolves.

Note that I didn't say I'd replace Thibs as both head coach and PBO. Well, if up to me I would replace him, but only if I could get a replacement I was certain would be an upgrade. I'll put together that list in another thread. :). In any event, I don't see Glen replacing Thibs this summer, so I'm focused on what Thibs can do as PBO to make this team better.

Yeah, i think this is the smart path.

I would unload Thibs for someone like Blatt or Bill Self (king of the hi-ow offense), but I cant see Taylor eating up the $$'s Thibs' contract.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.

This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.

I haven't really thought about other guys to go after. Leonard would be awesome, but my bar doesn't need to quite go that high. Hell, Josh Richardson is looking pretty good to me right about now!

I could see something Like Wiggins/Aldrich/Patton for Bradley Beal and mahimmi.

Wizards are in no mans land. They are pretty much stuck with a angry Wall and a huge contract and he has been hurt so they might look to shake it up. The Trade gets them cap relief and young hurt player in Patton and Could be a stud in Wiggins. Beal and Wall hate each other. If we are trading Wiggins this summer. Beal and Leonard are the 2 guys are target.

This team could be great with Leonard and I don't think it's unrealistic to think we could get him for Wiggins. But I'd be wary of Kawhi's health. He's coming off a season in which he played only 9 games because of a quad injury. We really don't know the extent to which his absence is health related. Yet, it goes well beyond this season. Kawhi has a history of missing lots of games. I believe he's missed an average of 17 games per season -- about the same average as Butler. So he was missing lots of games every season even before his quad injury. No telling whether the quad injury might be a recurring thing.

Your suggested deal for Beal is intriguing. I'm not even sure we'd have to give up Patton. I could see Wiggins and a 2nd round pick being enough. I wouldn't be willing to trade Wiggins for someone like Josh Richardson. I still have more than a sliver of hope that Wiggins will shine. It took until his 5th season for Oladipo to break through. Maybe next season will be the one for Wiggins.

Im also leery of aquiring Leonard because of the injury problems. Still if for some reason you could get him for basically Wiggins and some throw ins...you have to consider it.

The Wiggins for Beal deal would be interesting for the Wolves (looks like he has put his injuries behind him) but...why would the Wizards actually do it? I agree with the angle the Wizards need to figure out something different but the reason we would want Beal is why the Wizards would not want to do the deal for Wiggins. They need that 3 point shooting. The deal that probably makes more sense for both teams if that's the angle is Wiggins for Porter.

Ultimately I don't think a deal will happen for Wiggins because teams don't usually do the types of deals we have discussed and like I Lip you can't just sell low on Wiggins now. I don't think the Wolves will have to shop Wiggins I bet some teams will call and see what the price is on him. He is the 3rd banana and will be getting paid a lot of money and the Wolves are going to have to try and figure out their finances. There have been some unexpected deals so if you are another team you need to make that call. Starting level Wings are hard to find and guys with the length athleticism and ability to score don't come available very often. Sure you could say he is overpaid but would you rather overpay him or have a below average guy for a lot less? There is certainly potential left for Wiggins as well. These are all reasons the Wolves won't want to give him up either.

I think the reason the Wizards might do that deal is two-fold. First, I think they really want and need to deal Beal given the problems between him and Wall. Second, they appear to be stuck in no-man's land and need to make a bold move to get them over the hump. It depends on how much better the Wizards front office execs believe Wiggins can get. But your point about him being a poor fit for a Wizards team that needs 3-point shooting is a good one. On the other hand, they could perhaps improve their 3-point shooting through other moves. I agree that a Wiggins-Porter deal would be more likely. Would you do that deal if you were Thibs?

Bottom line is that we should not sell low on Wiggins for all the reasons you identified. I'm as frustrated by the Wolves this season as anyone. But this is not the time to panic with rash player-personnel moves. We have a talented roster and won 47 games this season. I don't think Thibs needs to be bold. We just needs to be smart.

I wasn't aware of an actual problem between Wall and Beal. Is it actually real or what seems to be somewhat manufactured like it's been the last few years? Regardless the Wizards are one of the disappointments of the league.

As for would I do the Wiggins for Porter deal? Idk I don't watch enough Wizards games to say. For one thing how good of a defender is Porter? He is good (better than Wiggins but even with Wiggins improvements...) but is he like just above average or are we talking near game changing as a defender? The guy is really efficient but he scores 14 ppg. The basic stats show he is a really good complimentary player. He isn't old either and steadily has become a better shooter. Something else to consider is they basically make the same amount of money the next 2 years and then Porter has a player option. So it's likely he opts our and if he is a really good player he could end up getting more than what Wiggins would get. For better or worse you have Wiggins locked in (unless he demands a trade) for 5 years. Wiggins could end up being a big time overpay but having a young guy locked in for 5 years is big and also his contract is going to be based on next year's cap which only is going to go up 2 million. The cap isn't supposed to make a massive jump but it is going to go up a decent chunk the next couple years and as some of these ridiculous 2016 contract go away...the money is gonna flow again and awiggins deal will begin to look more palatable even as it goes up. So how much do you believe Wiggins can capitalize on his talent compared to what might be JUST a pretty good player in Porter although maybe there is still potential there too?

Let's look at the Wizards side of it. I think a Porter deal COULD make sense to them because they might have his replacement already with Oubre looming like he might be a pretty nice player. If they don't move a wing could they just play Oubre and Porter together one of them guarding PFs? Idk he is one of the reasons the Wizards should feel like they still have a chance to be good with improvement from within along with Satoransky who has been terrific.

Cousins to the Wizards
Beal to the Wolves
Wiggins to the Pelicans

khans2k5 wrote:Cousins to the Wizards
Beal to the Wolves
Wiggins to the Pelicans

This makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams. Good one khans.

worldK wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Cousins to the Wizards
Beal to the Wolves
Wiggins to the Pelicans

This makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams. Good one khans.

I agree.

khans2k5 wrote:Cousins to the Wizards
Beal to the Wolves
Wiggins to the Pelicans

Boogie is UFA I think, I'm not sure with his achilles injury his value is there anymore. He might sign a one year prove it deal I think, probably not with NOLA.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Cousins to the Wizards
Beal to the Wolves
Wiggins to the Pelicans

Boogie is UFA I think, I'm not sure with his achilles injury his value is there anymore. He might sign a one year prove it deal I think, probably not with NOLA.

I'd assume the thinking is a sign and trade deal for Cousins. Part of me would love to see Wall and Cousins reunited again just because they are such terrific talents coming out of college that year. I also think the Wizards would regret that deal and I'm a big fan of Cousins talent. I agree his value might not be as big so the Wizards might have to sweeten that deal and I don't know what they would be willing to add...maybe nothing.