Minnesota Sports Forum

Saric not coming for 2 years. I would love a pick in the early 20's for him.

I am still thinking Vonlesh over Randle. By all counts Vonlesh is a worker. He has a chance to be something special and at worst I don't see him being any worse then short of a solid starter and at best a top PF. He just has to much potential. He has Bosh and Alridge skills to his game. I think he will average more blocks a game as a rookie then Randle will in his best pro season.

And Randle will be a better scorer, rebounder and leader than Vonleh. If you value blocked shots over that, well, more power to you...

If you draft for who is the best player on draft night, your organization will fail because rookies don't do very much in this league, but 3-4 year guys start making the big impacts. I can't seriously believe that 1 way guys like Parker and Randle will be better players than Wiggins and Vonleh in 3-4 years because Wiggins and Vonleh will be playing effectively on both ends of the court. Randle can only go left and will struggle against length just like he did in college this year. He is not as big as Randolph, so I don't see him just being able to get to his spots on the court to score from. He also doesn't have the touch Randolph displays in his jumpers that makes him so good as well. Randle is a banger who is now going to bang into the teeth of the D with guys consistently bigger than him and it is going to make life difficult. His calling will be to make it to line if he has the quickness to get past 4's.

Jabari is an overweight wing who will be a revolving door on D if he guards 3's and will be unable to handle the size of most 4's in this league. I don't see the Melo comparisons because Melo is taller with a quicker release and is just quicker in general. Parker can give you 18-25 a night, but he won't rebound the heck out of the ball and he won't play D effectively. How is that any better than what Love is doing now? Love scores 26 a game, grabs 12+ boards, dishes 3+ assists, but can't play any D. So tell me how Parker is the guy at 1 if we somehow land that pick when he will contribute less than Love on the stat line and have the exact same weaknesses that everybody rips Love for as to why we can't make the playoffs (No Defense)? We'd be replacing Love with someone who is worse than him at everything Love gave us last year (with maybe the exception of 4th quarter scoring which is TBD for Parker) which wasn't enough to make the playoffs.

You take Wiggins who can already lock down the opposing teams best wing and help you win games with defense which is what wins titles. He had a higher TS% than Parker in college which makes him not that bad of a shooter. He gets to play off of Ricky instead of needing to be the primary ball handler to score. He is the best athlete in the draft which people want next to Ricky. His ceiling is way higher than Parker's so why would you take Parker when he won't do any more for you than Love and Love couldn't carry us to the playoffs? Vonleh is going to have a good jumper out of the gate. He has the potential to stretch that jumper out to the 3 point line. He has ridiculous length that makes him a candidate for being a good rim protector in this league. He won't bang down low, but we don't need that next to Pek anyway. We need a big who can play in the high post next to Pek which is where he is going to thrive like a Lamarcus Aldrige. He is a very skilled player and given time for development will be well rounded on both sides of the ball. I have yet to see anyone studying these prospects put Randle ahead of Vonleh so I don't see why we should be. All the experts are saying draft BPA for the long-term and BPA for the long-term in both cases is Wiggins and Vonleh because of what they can do on both sides of the ball. Parker and Randle get you points, but you have to ask what else they give you at a high level and in todays game, your best player better be able to do more than just score the basketball.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just tired of hearing how Parker and Randle are more NBA ready when Rookies historically do very little. Give me the guys who are going to be better in 3-4 years because that is when they start to show their true capabilities. Wiggins is just as NBA ready defensively as Parker is offensively, so to me it is not even close when one has the tools to be a great two way player and the other doesn't.

- Randle can go left or right. He just has a strong propensity to finish with his left hand. Creating separation isn't a problem for him, though, and neither is his touch around the rim. He can bounce the ball in off his head for all I care. Get the ball in the hoop. He does this and he does it well.

- Randolph is 20 pounds heavier than Randle, yes, but Randle's also cut up and ripped while Z-Bo has some chub on him. Let's not act like 6'9, 250 is small. Randle's also much more athletic/quicker than Randolph. You didn't mention that, though. Convenient.

- Randle set the UK single-season freshman records in rebounds (417), double-doubles (24) and FTs made (204). To put this into perspective:

*DeMarcus Cousins- 374 rebounds, 20 double-doubles and 162 FTs made.

*Anthony Davis- 415 rebounds, 20 double-doubles and 144 FTs made.

He's in elite company there. I wouldn't ignore his production.

- Randle was known as a good mid-range shooter coming out of high school. Coach Cal already had enough shooters last season with the Harrison twins and James Young, though. He put him on the block and let him go to work. I assure you his jumper will show in the NBA. Good form and decent range. Could grow into corner threes.

- Randle is a banger, but of course you disregard his face-up game. He's quicker than most power forwards and has a decent handle for a big man too (Vonleh does as well). You're painting the picture that he just gets the ball and backs down small opponents and finishes left. Not true.

- Jabari's overweight right now. He's always going to have some extra beef on him, though. Pudginess is right in line with Carmelo's. Good thing there's conditioning programs and diets where you can change your body. You don't need to look far to see an example of this. Kevin Love was a walking meatball coming out of UCLA.

- The Melo comparisons are due to their abilities to create off the dribble while also being effective post scorers. That's a rare combo in the NBA. Also, Carmelo's always been considered a good rebounder for a 3/4. He averaged 8 boards a game last year. Jabari averaged 7 last year at Duke. I guess it depends on what position you think he'll play. He's a SF to me, probably a PF to you.

- Chad Ford has Randle above Vonleh. I'm sure there are plenty of others that do as well. It's all a matter of opinion right now, though. I still think it's laughable that you revert to the opinions of ESPN writers to base your opinion off of. Watch the players. Use your own head. If Vonleh is better to you, then so be it. Make your case without using: "All the experts are saying..." All that sounds like is, "Well, everybody else says he's better so that's what I'm going with."

The biggest thing that separates Parker and Randle from Wiggins and Vonleh to me is their mentalities. The former two shine in big moments. They relish the opportunity to be "the man" and carry their teams/make their teammates better. Wiggins and Vonleh had the "Kevin Martin complex" last year. Shy in big moments, didn't want the ball. I want the guys with strong mental games.

"Kevin Love was a walking meatball coming out of UCLA"

Thank you for the chuckle Cam, that was great

Also, just throwing this out there...

Only freshmen in the last decade to average 15+ PPG and 10+ RPG:

- Kevin Durant
- Michael Beasley
- Kevin Love
- Julius Randle

Ford has Vonleh higher in his mock drafts and on his big board, so that statement was a flat out lie that he has Randle ranked higher. Pointing out people supporting arguments is to show the arguments are actually supported and more than just the opinion of one person on a message board. I'm saying your arguments that Randle and Parker are better draft picks than Vonleh and Wiggins just aren't supported by many people who study the draft. My opinion is Wiggins and Vonleh are going to be better long-term players than Parker and Randle and I include the experts in my conversation to show that the opinion is actually supported by people who study the game a lot more than I do, so I must be on the right track in my evaluations.

Parker's only job right now is to be in shape, so to say a training program is going to magically fix his weight issues doesn't make sense when he can't even stay in shape when that is his primary job function. He couldn't even stay in shape in season at Duke while playing. If he keeps the weight issues, there is no way he can be a 3 in this league. He'll be too slow on both sides of the ball. That is a large reason why Melo has moved over to the 4. He is a complete defensive liability at the 3, but at least he rebounds decent for a small ball 4. He's not quick enough or cares enough to guard most 3's and you can't tell me Jabari cares about defense. All you have to do is watch the Mercer game to know that ship has sailed. Why should we rebuild with the prototype one-way player of which the guy he is replacing and the guy you are comparing him to were on teams that didn't make the playoffs because those teams couldn't play D? A large part of that is the stars on those teams played no D so the other 4 guys had to scramble to cover for them. That's just getting rid of Love to replace him with another guy who also is a net negative on the defensive end when Love is already the better offensive player. How does it push the needle at all to draft a less effective Love?

You evaluate Randle's quickness against NBA competition before he has played a game against them. To put 6'9, 250 into reference, Thomas Robinson came in at 6'8 and 3/4 and 245 with a better wingspan and overhead reach. Robinson was largely considered the same type of player Randle is as a face up 4. Guess what Robinson is struggling with thus far in his career? NBA length. To say Randle just won't have any problems is ridiculous when someone with almost the exact same measurables who also was a double-double machine out of KU that everyone though was a face up 4 is having problems so far in his career. You can talk about mentality all you want, but you can't be a good defender with just mentality on your side. Parker and Randle have physical limitations that will prevent them from being good defenders. Wiggins and Vonleh will not.

Draft Express has us taking Zach LaVine at 13 over the likes of Gary Harris, T.J. Warren, Dario Saric and Rodney Hood.

"The Timberwolves front office has reportedly fallen hard for the spectacular athleticism of UCLA's freshman, and sees him as a likely star in the making. Look for the Timberwolves to go into next season with mostly the same roster as last year and try and convince Kevin Love to stay in Minnesota with a playoff run.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz35c1ka6re
http://www.draftexpress.com"

If Flip wants to roll the dice... Pray for the best.