Minnesota Sports Forum

worldK, I have watched Gordon Hayward play quite a bit since the Wolves and Jazz match up against each other quite often. He's a nice complementary player. I agree that last year he played against tougher competition as a starter and it showed. He shot 40% from the field and 30% from 3 against that tougher competition. Not good. He seems grossly overpaid, and even his numbers prior to last year, when he was not featured as much, don't justify the type of contract he received.

As for Budinger, I'm not defending his contract or even suggesting he's the better player. My original point was in response to LST's amazement at the contracts being handed out and how some of our contracts that looked like dogs last year could turn into decent values. I happen to believe Budinger could be one of those individuals if he can get his game back to where it was while with Houston. If he can, than on a dollar for dollar value basis, he's a much better bargain as compared to Hayward's max money.

Khans, Here are the numbers I was referring to:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=haywago01&y1=2014&p2=budinch01&y2=2013

I fail to see this massive gulf between the two players.

Q, I'll point out that jazz and wolves play each other 3-4 times a year and you need more games to really evaluate a player. Im a bud fan as well but I have no illusions that he is not much different from hayward.
We just have to agree to disagree here q.

I agree that hayward is not max money player but he is on the level of batum and gallo while bud at his best is a midlevel guy.

Hicks123 wrote:Yeah, doesn't seem a great comparison in my mind. Khans makes the most important point in that Hayward was the focal point for other teams to defend, while Bud is of no real concern to any defender...even on the second unit. And I would say there is a HUGE statistical difference in +200 rebounds, +600 assists, +140 steals, +100 blocks and +1,300 points....in only 4 seasons. That is massive no matter how you look at it. While Hayward is certainly overpaid, he is a far superior player for the simple fact that he is extremely well rounded and contributes all over the court. Bud is simply a bench guy that shoots a meager percentage for a guy known as a shooter. Not even close, as many have said.

Hayward has played more games than Budinger and started more games, which is why there is a large difference in totals. That does make Hayward the more reliable and durable player. However, when you look at the per 36 minute stats, there isn't a big difference. And it was really only last season that Hayward became Utah's featured guy. And he didn't look good in that role at all.

The only reason Bud is looked at poorly is his health. If he wouldn't have had that 2nd knee injury we would probably be talking about how he was sort of a good deal right now. Like Q said he might be a guy you hold onto because if he returns to the guy he was in houston...heck teams have tried getting dudes sorta like that (Korver Redick) at trade deadlines for years and Bud was a lot more of an athlete than either of those guys. Cross your fingers and hope he gets healthy.

Isn't Bud older?

worldK wrote:Q, I'll point out that jazz and wolves play each other 3-4 times a year and you need more games to really evaluate a player. Im a bud fan as well but I have no illusions that he is not much different from hayward.
We just have to agree to disagree here q.

I agree that hayward is not max money player but he is on the level of batum and gallo while bud at his best is a midlevel guy.

Right, I'm not a PhD in how Gordon Hayward looks like when he plays, nor do I think it matters a whole bunch after watching him a half-dozen games. But between seeing him play a few times plus the massive array of stats available these days, it isn't rocket science to get a pretty good understanding of a player's impact on the game.

One could argue Batum is overpaid too, thanks to the Wolves! Batum seems to be a more efficient player and better defender than Hayward, but I agree that both are best suited as good complementary wings with superior players at other positions.

...Whereas Bud is at MAX a decent player off the bench, and he might not even be that anymore considering injuries.

A healthy Budinger is really not much different than Gordon Hayward... Skip Bayless, is that you? (kidding of course)

Vasquez resigns with Toronto for 2 years 13 million.

Would like to have seen Flip target him, but not for that price.

I'm glad we have little Cap and roster spaces to work with this off season. It's brutal out there atm!

You guys are focusing on the wrong part of q's statement. Saying Bud could be a good value if healthy considering the contracts being tossed out this offseason. Hayward is not more than 3x the player Budinger is... when healthy.

It's meaningless due to the qualifier, but it's not outlandish.

Q, a question for you? Lets say bud was healthy and didnt suffer any injury 2 seasons ago. You put him in utah last season in place of hayward. Do you think he can produced the numbers hayward had there last season? Can he even play the same minutes hayward did and be the number 1 guy on that team? Do you believe there would be 3 teams(utah,cle,charlote) willing or considering to throw max money at bud if he was healthy last season and replaced hayward on that jazz team?

Again, Im not saying hayward is max player but he is a level higher than bud.