Minnesota Sports Forum

Good singing of Romo..

How many actual roster spots do we think are open at this time?

is this right?

2019 Active Payroll of $96M
2020 Active Payroll to date of $98M

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/payroll/2019/
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/payroll/2020/

This team has a ton of bargain players on it. Those Kepler and Polanco signings are looking like robbery.

How many more years of control on Rosario, Sano, Buxton, and Berrios?

bleedspeed177 wrote:Good singing of Romo..

How many actual roster spots do we think are open at this time?

is this right?

2019 Active Payroll of $96M
2020 Active Payroll to date of $98M

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/payroll/2019/
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/payroll/2020/

This team has a ton of bargain players on it. Those Kepler and Polanco signings are looking like robbery.

How many more years of control on Rosario, Sano, Buxton, and Berrios?

After 2020
Rosario 1
Sano 1
Buxton 2
Berrios 2
Garver 3
Arraez 5

So basically our whole starting line up is locked up for two years or more

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

jester1534 wrote:So listening to Gleeman and the geek Podcast on Sunday it sounds like wheeler agent told the twins to not even bother. Apparently Wheeler fiancée wanted to live in the east coast and he reportedly turned down a 5 for 125 million dollar offer from the white Sox.

I'm assuming this is what happened and MadBum case as well. I have a hard time believing he couldn't get a better deal.

Even if all that is true, and I'm not saying it isn't, Twins fans are left feeling a lot different than White Sox fans for the simple fact that Chicago's front office made Zack Wheeler turn them down after an aggressive offer. Minnesota didn't even go that far.

Yeah I'm really upset about us not getting the "We tried harder but we didn't get him trophy" ;) White Sox fans can dry their tears with their new Grandal jerseys and look at their new trophy...and their awesome starting Pitcher Giolito.

Something to consider...what if the White Sox leaked And offered 125 million for Wheeler Basically so they looked like they tried harder? It wouldn't be the first time something that had happened. And don't get me wrong I'm not putting lipstick on a pig just thinking out loud a bit.

We did get Romo back for 5 million and an option for next year. Sounds good to me.

The only thing I will say about this is now the Twins have to trade for a starting pitcher eventually. This how you end up with Trades for James Shields for Fernado Tatis Jr. I'm guessing the white sozx would love to have tatis right next to Mochanda right now.

jester1534 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

jester1534 wrote:So listening to Gleeman and the geek Podcast on Sunday it sounds like wheeler agent told the twins to not even bother. Apparently Wheeler fiancée wanted to live in the east coast and he reportedly turned down a 5 for 125 million dollar offer from the white Sox.

I'm assuming this is what happened and MadBum case as well. I have a hard time believing he couldn't get a better deal.

Even if all that is true, and I'm not saying it isn't, Twins fans are left feeling a lot different than White Sox fans for the simple fact that Chicago's front office made Zack Wheeler turn them down after an aggressive offer. Minnesota didn't even go that far.

Yeah I'm really upset about us not getting the "We tried harder but we didn't get him trophy" ;) White Sox fans can dry their tears with their new Grandal jerseys and look at their new trophy...and their awesome starting Pitcher Giolito.

Something to consider...what if the White Sox leaked And offered 125 million for Wheeler Basically so they looked like they tried harder? It wouldn't be the first time something that had happened. And don't get me wrong I'm not putting lipstick on a pig just thinking out loud a bit.

We did get Romo back for 5 million and an option for next year. Sounds good to me.

The only thing I will say about this is now the Twins have to trade for a starting pitcher eventually. This how you end up with Trades for James Shields for Fernado Tatis Jr. I'm guessing the white sozx would love to have tatis right next to Mochanda right now.

Those types of deals are why I wasn't too excited about trading for Bumgarner last season. If a bad deal is the only deal you have to make then I'd rather not do one. I get we need an upgrade at the top of the rotation for the postseason BUT this team did win over 100 games last year with Martin Perez And a sick Gibson in the rotation for a large chunk of the season. I'm not suggesting that everything is fine but I'm saying they don't HAVE to make a trade. They should be aggressive looking to make one but now out if it doesn't make sense. There have been worthwhile starters traded for...what seems to be less than what you would expect. There are always pitchers made available every year. Hopefully this front office plays it right.

One other thing about the top FA pitchers or maybe other Top FAs...do you really want a guy that basically told you he doesn't want to be here? I mean a 5 year 20 or more million to a guy that may have basically said "Don't even call"? I'd want to have a better partnership with that player than that. I'm not say don't even try Or you can't get professionals to figure it out if they agree to a deal but I would say if the guy and his people really don't seem interested at some point it's time to move on and not try and convince someone to do something they don't want to do. One thing I learned a few years ago is that don't work somewhere where you work there mostly because other people want to you work there and you have some legit concerns. That was a good learning experience for a few reasons but I regret not listening to myself on that one.

The Diamondbacks had 3 things going for them when going after Bumgarner.

1. They are in the NL.
2. He has a ranch in Arizona
3. Taxes? ( I heard that he wanted 100M from other West coast clubs)

Oh, monster... The actual point was you can almost completely avoid making those bad trades if you're an aggressive spender in free agency, especially if you have the payroll flexibility that the Twins currently have this off-season. It's much better to spend available money than it is to deal prospects -- every single time.

Using last season as a reason for why the front office shouldn't feel pressured to upgrade the starting rotation is misguided. That would be assuming that the Twins will once again have largely everything go right for them and that they'll have another historic season offensively, which is far from guaranteed. What happens if this team is plagued by injuries similar to what the New York Yankees endured last year? What would happen if a Jose Berrios or Jake Odorizzi had to miss significant time? This team would crumble as currently constructed and that's partially why more quality starters are needed.

I hate to say this to you because it will come off as insulting, but your kind of thinking there is unwelcome as a personnel manager. The large majority of athletes don't want to move to Minnesota unless they are convinced by something. That's not to say that it's a bad place to live, but that the stigma is always centered around cold winters, boring night life, geologically distant, etc. As someone responsible for bringing in premium talent, it's their job to convince them otherwise. Part of the job is recruiting in one way or another.

Here's a comparison that you should be able to understand. It's been widely reported that Steph Curry did not want to play in Minnesota and that basically scared David Kahn into not drafting him even though it was thought to be the right move at the time anyway. Curry would have played in Minnesota had he been drafted there and he likely would've grown to love and accept the fans and surroundings. Kahn's mistake there was being scared off by a player's wants.

We are on completely different sides of how we view the Twins' off-season it seems.

These are horrible outside of the first.

https://www.skornorth.com/twins-2/2019/12/who-says-no-five-trades-that-could-bring-back-impact-pitching/

bleedspeed177 wrote:These are horrible outside of the first.

https://www.skornorth.com/twins-2/2019/12/who-says-no-five-trades-that-could-bring-back-impact-pitching/

Whoever wrote this tried too hard to make the trades seem "fair" that they ended up being significantly lopsided against the Twins. I wouldn't do any of these deals and for me almost all of them would have to wait until Josh Donaldson is signed, which probably won't happen if the front office continues this awful off-season plan.

Camden0916 wrote:Oh, monster... The actual point was you can almost completely avoid making those bad trades if you're an aggressive spender in free agency, especially if you have the payroll flexibility that the Twins currently have this off-season. It's much better to spend available money than it is to deal prospects -- every single time.

Using last season as a reason for why the front office shouldn't feel pressured to upgrade the starting rotation is misguided. That would be assuming that the Twins will once again have largely everything go right for them and that they'll have another historic season offensively, which is far from guaranteed. What happens if this team is plagued by injuries similar to what the New York Yankees endured last year? What would happen if a Jose Berrios or Jake Odorizzi had to miss significant time? This team would crumble as currently constructed and that's partially why more quality starters are needed.

I hate to say this to you because it will come off as insulting, but your kind of thinking there is unwelcome as a personnel manager. The large majority of athletes don't want to move to Minnesota unless they are convinced by something. That's not to say that it's a bad place to live, but that the stigma is always centered around cold winters, boring night life, geologically distant, etc. As someone responsible for bringing in premium talent, it's their job to convince them otherwise. Part of the job is recruiting in one way or another.

Here's a comparison that you should be able to understand. It's been widely reported that Steph Curry did not want to play in Minnesota and that basically scared David Kahn into not drafting him even though it was thought to be the right move at the time anyway. Curry would have played in Minnesota had he been drafted there and he likely would've grown to love and accept the fans and surroundings. Kahn's mistake there was being scared off by a player's wants.

We are on completely different sides of how we view the Twins' off-season it seems.

The Steph Curry example is not the same and a bad one to make your point (which I don't actually disagree with). 1st of all David Kahn didn't think Steph Curry was going to be that good which he openly admitted later. He actually thought Flynn was going to be better. Yes it's brutal. 2nd of all if the Wolves wanted to draft Steph Curry He didn't really have a choice he was going to have to play here. From what I have read Calipari Got suckered into that with Kobe but that didn't happen with the Wolves because Kahn was simply too stupid. Ugh... FAs like the guys we are discussing here have options and plenty of good ones. Should front offices be trying to convince people to come here? Yes absolutely I completely agree that's part of their job. David Kahn did a fantastic job of convincing Darko to come here and he didn't want to. Lol sorry I couldn't help but mention that one. Seriously though at some point you have to realize there are some players that aren't coming here. Greinke apparently wouldn't wave his no trade clause last year to come here. Nobody is saying the front office is supposed to just cave at the first sign someone isn't interested but at some point you Gotta move on when it comes to FA if the players don't want to come here.

I get the idea that spending in FA keeps you from having to make a deal. My point was simply that making a bad deal is still bad and I'd rather roll with what we are able to put together in terms of a rotation and see what presents itself later. Maybe we will be the next team that lucks out and gets the next Stroman or Kluber for underwhelming assets. Part of the answer to being a true contender even if we signed a top level rotation guy was a young starter emerging. This front office needs to keep working the phones while building the chances of finding those guys...and or building assets for the next move. It's not now or never that's how you end up with some bad moves both in the trade market or FA (overpaying a guy that isn't actually good enough).

Camden wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:These are horrible outside of the first.

https://www.skornorth.com/twins-2/2019/12/who-says-no-five-trades-that-could-bring-back-impact-pitching/

Whoever wrote this tried too hard to make the trades seem "fair" that they ended up being significantly lopsided against the Twins. I wouldn't do any of these deals and for me almost all of them would have to wait until Josh Donaldson is signed, which probably won't happen if the front office continues this awful off-season plan.

These trades are all unfeasiable. I find these very comical. Why would the Mets want two years of Sano and Rosario. They would mst likely want the deal he gave for for Boyd. I hate to tell people this but Eddie Rosario trade value isn't that high. Avsial Garcia just got two years for 20 million and he had higher WAR than Roasrio last year and Rosario is projected to make close to 12 million in his last ear of arbtration. Nobody is going to want to pay him 12 million dollars.