thedoper wrote:I would love to start booing some of my colleagues. Or even better my superiors, they make more money than me. This is one of those strange grey areas of sports fandom where socially awkward behavior is viewed as a right. Cant wait to see a bunch of people booing at the ballet or opera.
Your post jogged my memory of that Peyton Manning commercial:
thedoper wrote:I would love to start booing some of my colleagues. Or even better my superiors, they make more money than me. This is one of those strange grey areas of sports fandom where socially awkward behavior is viewed as a right. Cant wait to see a bunch of people booing at the ballet or opera.
Your post jogged my memory of that Peyton Manning commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FlwJwL6kdo
That is hilarious thank you for sharing. I get crazy watching sports but I try to keep it at directing my hate to the refs and the other team.
1) I've been the chairman of the "just win" camp, as evidence by my many posts on the issue.
2) I've never booed the hometown team. Granted, I don't do much cheering either. I'm one of those very quiet Minnesotans. I don't even cheer at little kids youth sports for chrissakes.
3) I have NO PROBLEM with people paying their hard-earned money to boo at an event if the star attraction is going through the motions. Granted, the director of the Howard the Duck wasn't in the theater when I heard the booing, but that dude earned a loud booing. *
Booing is part of pro sports. I think the worst part is the new guy who has very little connection here (e.g., loyalty) is the one whining the most.
* I wouldn't boo Lea Thompson though. She did the best she could with the material. She had to have sex with a duck for crying out loud!
A lot of interesting thoughts here. Good discussion. I'd like to respectfully disagree with the two main arguments here from Abe and Carlos, two posters whose ideas I respect and like.
The Accountability Argument
First, Carlos has pointed out that all workers are (or should be) evaluated and held accountable for their work. Totally agree. But getting a stern talk from your boss or a lackluster work review from your colleagues or clients is nowhere near the same thing as getting publicly shamed by getting booed in front of 20,000 people in person, having that broadcast live on TV, and then having that circulate on the internet forever.
I say "public shaming" because I think that's what booing really is. It's a mass demonstration of emotional disapproval of someone's behavior in an explicitly public way that its participants hope will change that behavior. If you call that accountability, then what's to stop all of these mobs of public shamers these days from simply saying they're upholding "accountability?" I think we've had more than enough of public shaming these days, don't you? People have a right to do it, but by god, don't you think we'd be better off with a lot less of it?
I'm all for accountability. And my god I wanted to boo that team the other day too. But there's a right way to do it. This was for Finch to handle, sternly and privately with the team. If the fans had simply gone stone silent and then cheered again when the team was playing better, it would have had a similar effect from the fans without driving a wedge between the fans and the players.
Let's go back to the co-worker analogy Carlos pointed out. Imagine you didn't really give your best at work for a few days in a row (be honest, we've all done it) and your boss noticed it. Now let's imagine two different bosses responding to this scenario. Boss One pulls you aside privately and lets you know they expect better. Boss Two gets all the employees, clients, and customers into one room, hooks up video conferencing with other branches of your company, then calls you out for being lazy in front of everybody, and lead everybody in a chorus of boos denouncing you.
Honestly, how would you react to those two bosses?
Ah, you might say, but they get paid so much they should have to take it! Which brings us to Abe's argument.
The Money Argument
Abe's highlighted how much more a star player makes than a regular person, and if the implication wasn't clear, he's let Don Draper make it explicit: it's ok to boo these guys because (collectively) we pay them so much money that we're essentially buying the right to boo them. The massive amounts of money they get should more than make up for it. That's what the money's for.
But is it? Technically, they money is to compensate them for playing basketball and for our right to watch it. Are we buying something more than that? I would argue that we are not. The right to boo exists whether or not we pay them the money. But having the right to boo doesn't mean that it's ok to do it. I have the right to make goofy noises and belch and fart in people's faces all I want, but that doesn't mean I should do it. And if I'm paying for a meal in an expensive restaurant, I haven't bought the right to do that. I simply have that right--and the restaurant has the right to kick me out if I do! I'm not advocating that the Target Center usher out booing fans like that restaurant chucking out John Belushi in the Blues Brothers. But I am saying that the amount of money we pay these guys has no bearing on whether or not it's ok to boo. And for the reasons I and others have outlined here, I think it's best for us to choose not to exercise the right to boo. Are these guys paid obscene amounts of money? Absolutely. But if we have a big problem with that, I think a better solution is either not to pay to watch them (and I ain't givin' up League Pass!) or raise taxes on the rich (*crosses fingers and hopes not to sidetrack the discussion*). Bottom line, we have the right to boo (regardless of how much or how little they are paid), but that doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.
Also, think twice about taking advice from Don Draper.
EDIT: One last thought on the money thing. If we assume that the money should numb them to caring when we boo them, then shouldn't the money also numb them to caring when we cheer them? Personally, I'd hate to have a player like that. I want players to feel emotionally connected to the fans, not numbed by the money.
The Gray Area
I just want to say I think doper makes a good point when he says booing falls into a kind of gray area in fan behavior. There are some situations in which I honestly think booing would be totally called for. For example, if a player was playing dirty. And presumably, there are some players who might actually be wired in a way that might respond well to their own fans booing. But I don't think there are many of those guys (and honestly, how much booing did MJ or Kobe ever really suffer?). There are also probably some fan bases, like Philly's, which has such a reputation for it that players know not to take it too seriously. Or if an opposing player seems to relish getting booed, like Trae Young in NY, then go for it. It clearly seems like a mutual dance at that point. All this is to say that I don't think booing is always wrong. But in our case here, for the reasons I've laid out, I just don't think it's the right choice. But I respect the opinions of those of you who disagree.
1) When we're the ones "sorta" paying for players salaries through tickets, there are unique expectations and accountability unlike anything any of us will ever experience in real life.
2) I'm cool if there was no booing in arenas. Take it out entirely and I'll be fine. After all, I've found a certain type of fan to be the most inclined to boo loudly. And it's just not my thing. That being said...
3) Remove booing... and we'll have to remove applause as well. There's an old saying, probably from before Don Draper's days, about having cake and eating it, too.
We're not bobos to the players... regardless of what some of them may believe. I think that the very odd culture of 15k - 20k going bananas for players and treating them as gods has skewed the perspective for some those players. I think this is one of those times.
Booing has been part of pro sports for a century. Good or bad. Gonna be tough to put the genie back in the bottle.
The funny thing is, Abe, that I don't often see Target Center booming with cheers and positivity. Occasionally, sure, when something is overwhelmingly exciting, but for the most part Minnesota has a dead crowd. They/we were called out on it last year as well. That only makes the booing more peculiar from my view. They're largely a quiet audience, but this season, especially of late, they feel entitled enough to boo? Hold the phone. Where's that energy when the team is playing well? Where's that energy for the opposing team who's coming to Target Center to ruin their night? Minnesota has zero home court advantage on the regular, and when the home fans boo they only make that worse.
No wonder it took a road trip for this team to play their best basketball of the early season. Get it together Target Center!
Camden wrote:The funny thing is, Abe, that I don't often see Target Center booming with cheers and positivity. Occasionally, sure, when something is overwhelmingly exciting, but for the most part Minnesota has a dead crowd. They/we were called out on it last year as well. That only makes the booing more peculiar from my view. They're largely a quiet audience, but this season, especially of late, they feel entitled enough to boo? Hold the phone. Where's that energy when the team is playing well? Where's that energy for the opposing team who's coming to Target Center to ruin their night? Minnesota has zero home court advantage on the regular, and when the home fans boo they only make that worse.
No wonder it took a road trip for this team to play their best basketball of the early season. Get it together Target Center!
There are MANY more cheers than boos. It's actually astronomical in the difference between the two.
As far as the intensity of the cheering, maybe we need to give other fans more time. They're probably new to more wins than losses. Heck, this is a franchise that would go an entire month without a win at home.
SameOldNudity, I respect your take on this even though we differ. My analogy of comparing accountability feedback at work to arena booing was probably a stretch. I agree with you that being booed by thousands of fans is much different than anything us average working Joes would ever experience. I was mainly attempting to showcase my belief is that it's on the performer/athlete/worker to do better vs. expect others to be polite - regardless of how they feel about what they are watching. Example: I give a presentation and notice the audience is staring into space, checking their phones/watches, yawning etc. That's "booing" to me. But my instinct is to just try to do better i.e. engage them vs. getting mad at their reaction to me.
That said, your post got me wondering if there is any actual science/study on this area. I only did a couple minutes of looking so far, but I did find this which supports your thoughts. From the link:
"Research that has examined the impact of negative cheering (booing) indicates that it may have a detrimental impact on the home team's performance. Specifically, research has demonstrated that home basketball teams are more likely to turn the ball over and foul the opposition while fans boo in comparison to when fans support the team (Thirer & Rampey, 1979). The authors concluded that the fans' booing may increase home player aggression which in turn may negatively affect performance."
Maybe someone with more time than me can expand on any research/data they might find in this regard. Sort of an interesting topic I've never seen discussed before this came up here.
Carlos Danger wrote:That said, your post got me wondering if there is any actual science/study on this area. I only did a couple minutes of looking so far, but I did find this which supports your thoughts. From the link:
"Research that has examined the impact of negative cheering (booing) indicates that it may have a detrimental impact on the home team's performance. Specifically, research has demonstrated that home basketball teams are more likely to turn the ball over and foul the opposition while fans boo in comparison to when fans support the team (Thirer & Rampey, 1979). The authors concluded that the fans' booing may increase home player aggression which in turn may negatively affect performance."
Maybe someone with more time than me can expand on any research/data they might find in this regard. Sort of an interesting topic I've never seen discussed before this came up here.
Stray voltage from the fans instead of the players. Makes sense to me.
Camden wrote:The funny thing is, Abe, that I don't often see Target Center booming with cheers and positivity. Occasionally, sure, when something is overwhelmingly exciting, but for the most part Minnesota has a dead crowd. They/we were called out on it last year as well. That only makes the booing more peculiar from my view. They're largely a quiet audience, but this season, especially of late, they feel entitled enough to boo? Hold the phone. Where's that energy when the team is playing well? Where's that energy for the opposing team who's coming to Target Center to ruin their night? Minnesota has zero home court advantage on the regular, and when the home fans boo they only make that worse.
No wonder it took a road trip for this team to play their best basketball of the early season. Get it together Target Center!
There are MANY more cheers than boos. It's actually astronomical in the difference between the two.
As far as the intensity of the cheering, maybe we need to give other fans more time. They're probably new to more wins than losses. Heck, this is a franchise that would go an entire month without a win at home.
Well, of course there are. I wasn't there last night, but it sure sounded like the fans brought the roof down when JMac and Ant got hot in the second half. And while the booing was audible, it paled in comparison to the cheers. My gal has to wear earplugs to the games, and it's not because of the boos!
Now if someone wants to argue that Minnesota crowds are quieter than east coast crowds...both in cheering and booing...I would accept that argument. Way too many Scandinavians and not enough Italians!
