Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Like the picks on a stand alone basis. I like the fact both are built like grown men instead of skinny dudes that get easily pushed around. And Okogie is still pretty damn young!

Where I have an issue is roster construction. The offseason is far from done, but our need for shooting is indeed desperate, as Cool mentions above. We are a chronically poor 3-point shooting team and this dates back many seasons. Thibs has known this, yet very little has been done to address it. If his plan is to keep Wiggins and Butler as his starting wings, then our MLE absolutely has to be targeted toward a 3-point sniper. And even if we land one, we'll still be in the bottom third of the league in 3-point shooting most likely.

FWIW both Okogie and KBD took more 3's last year in college per game than any player in the Wolves. Crawford was the only player that took more 3's per 36 mins than the 5+ that KBD took last year Ohio state. It's not like these draft picks aren't 3 point shooters. Maybe they aren't bigtime guys but both profile as defenders also. Even if KBD can only guard perimeter bigs that could help cut down on the ones anothe team gets up. We still need more shooting but I think these picks COULD move things in the right direction.

Yeah, they both took a lot of 3's even though they were the main focus of opponent's defenses...they should each get far more open looks with the Wolves when everyone is focused on our big scorers, so it's not unlikely that their 3-point %'s will actually go up.

I continue to maintain that the Wolves' lack of 3-pointers is systems-related, not player related. The last half of Thibs' first season, the Wolves finished in the top 3 in the league in 3-point percentage...unfortunately, they ranked near the bottom in attempts. So often we see opponents design their offenses to set up open corner threes, but we seem to continue to favor PnR and isolation. So often I have watched our players drain 3 after 3 pre-game and at halftime at a 80-85% clip...we just need to redesign our offensive approach to focus on threes, and these guys (including the 2 new ones) will make them.

Great point on how Thibs' system limited the volume of 3-points shots. His system is all about mid-range isolation -- always has been.

60WinTim wrote:LST - I blame our lack of 3-point attempts more on the decision making our our two young studs than the system they play in. If they would only put a higher priority on creating shots for others than merely creating their own shots, we would see more 3-point attempts. And it would get more players involved in the offense, including the bench. But I firmly believe that is something that will continue to improve as those players continue to mature.

I disagree, Tim. I recall multiple times, Thibodeau waving guys off the 3-point line. Towns is our best 3-point shooter, yet it's Thibs who has him posting up in or near the paint most of the time. Trust me, Thibodeau orchestrates everything on the offensive end. Thibs has always coached a mid-range isolation game. While Thibs talks a good game about 3-point shooting, I don't see the spacing or ball movement required for better volume 3-point shooting. And no one holds the ball more than Jimmy Butler except perhaps Jeff Teague. I don't see those guys setting up their teammates for threes. But that's understandable since the spacing isn't there and it doesn't appear to be central to the design of the offense.

lipoli390 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:LST - I blame our lack of 3-point attempts more on the decision making our our two young studs than the system they play in. If they would only put a higher priority on creating shots for others than merely creating their own shots, we would see more 3-point attempts. And it would get more players involved in the offense, including the bench. But I firmly believe that is something that will continue to improve as those players continue to mature.

I disagree, Tim. I recall multiple times, Thibodeau waving guys off the 3-point line. Towns is our best 3-point shooter, yet it's Thibs who has him posting up in or near the paint most of the time. Trust me, Thibodeau orchestrates everything on the offensive end. Thibs has always coached a mid-range isolation game. While Thibs talks a good game about 3-point shooting, I don't see the spacing or ball movement required for better volume 3-point shooting. And no one holds the ball more than Jimmy Butler except perhaps Jeff Teague. I don't see those guys setting up their teammates for threes. But that's understandable since the spacing isn't there and it doesn't appear to be central to the design of the offense.

I think Tim does make a good point though and it is part of the problem. Jimmy is both part of the problem and I think he can be part of the solution. He can be an unselfish player but he try's to take over too much down the stretch.

lipoli390 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Do either of these guys even get on the floor? If we re-sign Rose, and add a 3pt threat, Teague, Tyus, Wig and Butler. Where are the minutes coming from? That is already more than Thibs plays.

I must admit it would be nice to see somebody step up and maybe relegate Wig to the bench more. Might be the only way left to try and light a fire under him.

Nice to see Thomas fall out of the first round after not working out for the wolves. Wonder if he fired his agent yet!

I had the same question as you about minutes. Since I'm certain Thibs will sign Rose and assuming he uses the MLE to sign a 3-point shooting wing, I think drafting Okogie and Diop might mean one of the following:

1. Thibs intends to deal one or both of these guys picks. One possibility would be trading one or both as an inducement to clear Gorgui's salary from the team's books. Another would be including one in a Wiggins deal.

2. Thibs anticipates losing Belly to free agency and sees these two picks as an insurance policy to provide wing depth in the absence of Belly. Actually, Diop fits the dual PF/SF role that Belly played.

POBO Thibs has put a priority on adding young players to this roster from the time he started. I don't see these guys as chips for another deal I see them as another move to build the roster. Bazz was a failure last year. MGH showed some small hints of intruige. Amile was a star at the G-League level and they drafted a project type in Patton. I don't see why we can't do both develop AND have some more vet guys. A couple players that are rotation players like Butler, Belly and Rose (assuming they are back back) tend to miss games so there will be opportunities.

Which brings us the the possibility you mention of losing Belly. Even if we keep him it's a good idea to have another possible option for that spot. IF KBD is actually capable of playing some minutes if other players are hurt etc that helps a lot. To me the next best 3-4 on the roster is either Butler or Wiggins.

I'm excited to see how this plays out. It's possible the Wolves actually have some guys that show they can hold up when the starters are out and therefore they get more minutes. Having more vets that have been in the system playing with each other probably helps also. I think Teague could be more effective espcially if he is sprinkled in with bench guys. One FA shooter like a Joe Harris would be big addition even though it doesn't seem as sexy as some guys that might be available for a big chunk or the whole mid-level.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Hard to argue with the two selections the Wolves made given their options. I'm thinking they maximized the draft given their slots. But this is not going to move the meter in terms of our ability to contend. We need some bold, creative moves to get to the next level. They have been talked about in this forum for months. Let's see what Thayden gets done between now and training camp. That, much more than this draft will determine our plight for next season. NBA championships are won during the offseason, not the actual game season. Lebron is going to determine which teams(s) can contend with the Warriors. Hopefully some groundwork is laid this summer to eventually give us a chance to be in the discussion.

I agree with you more needs to be done to have us take a step forward but I think you understate the importance of the draft. Look at the Warriors.

The Warriors aren't the Warriors if they don't draft Draymond innthe 2nd round. Now as far as bold offseason move which you mention they gave up a lot to add Iggy years ago. They also signed Livingston to a deal and he has been a significant contributor. They have found other cheap solid players along the way as well. All the contenders the past few years have at least one non-lottery type that's been pretty important to their success. This draft or some other way we need to find some of that type of talent. It's critical IMO.

Houston has been plenty aggressive also. Looking at the draft aspect Capela is a significant piece for them much of the season. They traded Beverly but he was a nice find for them and likely a part of the deal that made the Clippers feel good about their deal...till he got hurt again.

Both of those teams also had success with guys that for one reason or another we're guys that had lower value and they went for them and it's paid off. Rose could be that type of guy for us. If his salary is reasonable I'm in on taking a chance on that.

So do you have any bold moves? Personally I think if this team can go after and get the right shooting wing and it works out that could really catapult this teams and roster forward in a way that gives us opportunities we normally see from contender types. A lot of other teams are right there and could do something similar. Again I'm excited to see how it plays out.

As a Wolves fan this sounds familiar which is not a good thing for the Bulls.

https://twitter.com/codywesterlund/status/1010269662536445955?s=21

#Bulls brass conducted their press conference during 2nd round of draft last night b/c they didn't want a 3rd player for roster flexibility reasons, Gar Forman told @McNeil_Parkins. #Bulls also thought there wasn't good depth past late 20s in this draft.

Feverishly looking up this guy after I post this...

https://twitter.com/rhodymbb/status/1010274817201799170?s=21

University of Rhode Island guard Jared Terell has agreed to a two-way deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves @JaredTerrell32

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Like the picks on a stand alone basis. I like the fact both are built like grown men instead of skinny dudes that get easily pushed around. And Okogie is still pretty damn young!

Where I have an issue is roster construction. The offseason is far from done, but our need for shooting is indeed desperate, as Cool mentions above. We are a chronically poor 3-point shooting team and this dates back many seasons. Thibs has known this, yet very little has been done to address it. If his plan is to keep Wiggins and Butler as his starting wings, then our MLE absolutely has to be targeted toward a 3-point sniper. And even if we land one, we'll still be in the bottom third of the league in 3-point shooting most likely.

FWIW both Okogie and KBD took more 3's last year in college per game than any player in the Wolves. Crawford was the only player that took more 3's per 36 mins than the 5+ that KBD took last year Ohio state. It's not like these draft picks aren't 3 point shooters. Maybe they aren't bigtime guys but both profile as defenders also. Even if KBD can only guard perimeter bigs that could help cut down on the ones anothe team gets up. We still need more shooting but I think these picks COULD move things in the right direction.

Yes, I agree both have the potential to be solid 3-point shooters in terms of accuracy. But I just don't see either guy being a volume NBA shooter, by today's standards. Also, the Wolves have a horrible track record in developing outside shooters....

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:LST - I blame our lack of 3-point attempts more on the decision making our our two young studs than the system they play in. If they would only put a higher priority on creating shots for others than merely creating their own shots, we would see more 3-point attempts. And it would get more players involved in the offense, including the bench. But I firmly believe that is something that will continue to improve as those players continue to mature.

I disagree, Tim. I recall multiple times, Thibodeau waving guys off the 3-point line. Towns is our best 3-point shooter, yet it's Thibs who has him posting up in or near the paint most of the time. Trust me, Thibodeau orchestrates everything on the offensive end. Thibs has always coached a mid-range isolation game. While Thibs talks a good game about 3-point shooting, I don't see the spacing or ball movement required for better volume 3-point shooting. And no one holds the ball more than Jimmy Butler except perhaps Jeff Teague. I don't see those guys setting up their teammates for threes. But that's understandable since the spacing isn't there and it doesn't appear to be central to the design of the offense.

I think Tim does make a good point though and it is part of the problem. Jimmy is both part of the problem and I think he can be part of the solution. He can be an unselfish player but he try's to take over too much down the stretch.

I don't think it's a coaching issue....

Player-Career % of FGA were 3's-Last Season % of FGA were 3's

Butler - 22% - 22%
Wiggins - 18% - 26%
Teague - 25% - 29%
KAT - 17% - 24%
Jones - 38% - 39%
Gibson - 1% - 5%
Bjelly - 50% - 49%
Crawford - 39% - 42%
Dieng - 7% - 16%

Everyone but Bjelly went upwards in terms of the proportion of their shots being 3's.

I guess we will just have to give up trying to have a top-10 offense and see if we can bring the defense out of the basement...

What? We already have a top-10 offense?

;-)