Minnesota Sports Forum

GR3 shouldn't be a deal breaker either way. He will be lucky to get 5 minutes a game next season. It is like holding up a deal because we didn't want to include Hummel.

Camden wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

Camden wrote:Wolfson said the other day that Flip prefers Wiggins over Thompson, which made me happy. I don't want the head coach (Flip) influencing any decisions due to the "win now" bullshit.

What scares me about that Cam, is Doogie never gets any breaking stories from the wolves, but now all of a sudden he knows who Flip prefers. I think Flip leaked that to Doogie to up the GS offer.

Yeah, I hope that's not the case. Wolfson did break that LaVine would be the pick at 13 a couple days before the draft, though. Maybe he got a better source that's closer to Flip. I'm not sure. I just can't see Flip being that dumb.

Actually, about 5 minutes before the Wolves selected LaVine, Doogie tweeted that the Wolves were drafting Payne at #13. Then Krawsinski reported about a minute later that the Wolves were going to draft LaVine. Immediately after K's tweet, Doogie tweeted that he had been wrong about Payne and that LaVine was the guy. That's Doogie. He's really not wired in at all. He has some people in the Wolves organization who feed him tidbits every now ane then, sometimes for strategic purposes. I like Doogie and enjoy reading and listening to him. But he's rarely a source of news. So SJM could be right. But I still have faith in Flip that he wouldn't take a Klay deal over a Wiggins deal. On the other hand, I know for sure that Flip really, really likes Klay. So we'll see.

khans2k5 wrote:There is no reason to throw in GR3. He's not going to hold up the trade if we say we don't want to include him. Bazz makes less than 3 million which could fit into pretty much any trade. With Bud already at the 3 and Wiggins probably being a 3 at the start because of his handle, Bazz is expendable in my eyes. It makes no sense for us to keep the more expensive player who is just as low on the depth chart and it makes the deal look better for Cleveland getting a lottery pick back with Love. GR3 is going to be a better basketball player than Bazz so I don't want to include him because he is not a throw in level player in my mind. We are giving them a star and rotation player. That should be enough to land Wiggins/Bennett/Thompson or Waiters and a pick. There should be no need to include GR3 and I'll be disappointed if he does.

Kahns -- I can tell you with 100% certainty that Flip will not include Shabazz in any deal for either Wiggins or Klay Thompson. In fact, Flip's faith in Shabazz as a SF might be enough for Flip to favor the Klay deal over a Wiggins deal, although I still think Flip will opt for the Wiggins deal if offered.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I doubt GRIII is traded. Flip thought he got a first round talent in the second round with him (27th overall on his board if I recall) . I think he's unsigned because we need to see where we're at with roster spots after a Love trade. No reason for him to be a throw in for any trade.

Cam -- It really depends on how much the Cavs like him. We all know that Wiggins has to be included in the deal. If the Cavs really want GRIII as the price for including Tristan Thompson or Waiters in addition to Bennett, then I'm sure Flip would include him and that would be perfectly reasonable.

To Flip, that'd be like trading a first rounder, and I doubt he'd give in to that. He shouldn't have to put GRIII in the trade anyway. Love/Brewer for Wiggins/Thompson/Bennett/1st is fair as it is. They get to keep Waiters. If Flip made it clear that wasn't going to happen, I then expect Cleveland to get over it and proceed with the deal. I could even see a future 2nd being thrown in a trade before GRIII.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:There is no reason to throw in GR3. He's not going to hold up the trade if we say we don't want to include him. Bazz makes less than 3 million which could fit into pretty much any trade. With Bud already at the 3 and Wiggins probably being a 3 at the start because of his handle, Bazz is expendable in my eyes. It makes no sense for us to keep the more expensive player who is just as low on the depth chart and it makes the deal look better for Cleveland getting a lottery pick back with Love. GR3 is going to be a better basketball player than Bazz so I don't want to include him because he is not a throw in level player in my mind. We are giving them a star and rotation player. That should be enough to land Wiggins/Bennett/Thompson or Waiters and a pick. There should be no need to include GR3 and I'll be disappointed if he does.

Kahns -- I can tell you with 100% certainty that Flip will not include Shabazz in any deal for either Wiggins or Klay Thompson. In fact, Flip's faith in Shabazz as a SF might be enough for Flip to favor the Klay deal over a Wiggins deal, although I still think Flip will opt for the Wiggins deal if offered.

Lip,
I believe what you say above, but I have a VERY hard time grasping this. Why the love from Flip? Shabazz has shown me absolutely nothing to make me think he becomes any more than a chucker off the bench. I also like the way he crashes the glass, but he will be one of those guys that stagnates the offense...thus the reason his ceiling is that of a bench scorer. I would actually MUCH prefer to deal Shabazz over guys like Brewer because, while Brewer isn't a great shooter, he understands his role and plays much more within the confines of the game. Brewer is simply the better basketball player, and I honestly don't see that changing. I think if Shabazz has "appeal" to the Cavs, you deal him and don't look back. I hope I am wrong on this, but this situation smalles of D-Will all over again.

Cam --

I agree that Love and Brewer for Wiggins, Thompson, Bennett and a future first is fair for both sides. But what we consider fair may not get the deal done. I doubt Flip is particularly attached to GRIII. Nor should he be. I liked the pick as the 10th pick in the 2nd round, but GRIII is a long way from being an NBA caliber rotation player and the odds are stacked against him ever reaching that threshold when you look at NBA draft history.

According to Doogie, the Cavs haven't offered Wiggins yet. If that report is correct, then I'd say the Cavs organization is even more pathetic than I thought. On possibility is that the Cavs are actually willing to lose the chance to get Love in favor of keeping Wiggins, which makes absolutely no sense for the Cavs. Another possibilty is that the Cavs are trying to squeeze Flip in the most idiotic way you can imagine. No one on the planet could possibly believe that anyone with a brain would give up Love for a Cavs package without Wiggins. The Celtics and Bulls have already offered much better packages than that. I'd bet the Celtics are prepared to poney up a very nice offer with multiple future first round picks and either Olynyk or Smart (maybe both).

http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/2014/07/meditations-on-a-summer-league/

The paragraph on Bazz is why I don't want him on our team. His game hasn't changed at all since high-school. He didn't show any progress from last year's summer league. If anything, he became an even bigger black hole this year with better teammates around him. He's not a team player and regardless of work ethic or attitude, his game will make teammates not want to play with him and makes him a bad presence on any team. The fact that Flip is so high on Shabazz is worrisome to me because as a basketball player, he isn't good and plays a selfish game. That's a dangerous combination to have in this league. The guy could be the hardest worker on the team, but I don't care because it's clear to me that his hard work is him trying to find more ways to shoot the ball and not become a well rounded basketball player. He doesn't look to have the quickness needed to be a good shot creator and defender and while he can get up fast for rebounding purposes, he seems to be lacking an overall level of athleticism that's needed to be effective on both sides of the court. At least that's what my eye test sees with him. Maybe it's just me, but I'd try to trade him because I just see him as a career volume scorer on bad teams kind of player and I want guys who can play as a member of a team. It's one thing to be a volume scorer. Kevin Love is a volume scorer. It's another to be a black hole that shoots every time he touches the ball and that's the kind of player Bazz is right now.

Anyone know what Wiggins salary will be?

northernhoops wrote:Anyone know what Wiggins salary will be?

5.5 Million

Hicks123 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:There is no reason to throw in GR3. He's not going to hold up the trade if we say we don't want to include him. Bazz makes less than 3 million which could fit into pretty much any trade. With Bud already at the 3 and Wiggins probably being a 3 at the start because of his handle, Bazz is expendable in my eyes. It makes no sense for us to keep the more expensive player who is just as low on the depth chart and it makes the deal look better for Cleveland getting a lottery pick back with Love. GR3 is going to be a better basketball player than Bazz so I don't want to include him because he is not a throw in level player in my mind. We are giving them a star and rotation player. That should be enough to land Wiggins/Bennett/Thompson or Waiters and a pick. There should be no need to include GR3 and I'll be disappointed if he does.

Kahns -- I can tell you with 100% certainty that Flip will not include Shabazz in any deal for either Wiggins or Klay Thompson. In fact, Flip's faith in Shabazz as a SF might be enough for Flip to favor the Klay deal over a Wiggins deal, although I still think Flip will opt for the Wiggins deal if offered.

Lip,
I believe what you say above, but I have a VERY hard time grasping this. Why the love from Flip? Shabazz has shown me absolutely nothing to make me think he becomes any more than a chucker off the bench. I also like the way he crashes the glass, but he will be one of those guys that stagnates the offense...thus the reason his ceiling is that of a bench scorer. I would actually MUCH prefer to deal Shabazz over guys like Brewer because, while Brewer isn't a great shooter, he understands his role and plays much more within the confines of the game. Brewer is simply the better basketball player, and I honestly don't see that changing. I think if Shabazz has "appeal" to the Cavs, you deal him and don't look back. I hope I am wrong on this, but this situation smalles of D-Will all over again.

Hicks -- I agree with a lot of what you say. All I can say is that Flip really likes Shabazz. Like you, I have my doubts and I'd be willing to include him in a Cleveland deal if necessary. But I'm not worried about Shabazz becoming another D-Will. Shabazz works a lot harder and has much better instincts on the court. Williams is a dear in headlights everytime he steps on the court. He's soft and has a happy-go-lucky attitude that you you generally see in players that, even if talented, never make it in the NBA. Remember Wes Johnson? Shabazz is all business on the court, and I'm told in practice too. He is the oppostite of soft and is extremely hard nosed and dedicated to becoming good.