Time to punch back. . .again Wolves at Nuggets GAME TWO GDT

[KiwiMatt]

A few notes from the game:

Ant didn't score the last 6.30 of the game. The others stepped up, especially Big Ju and DDV. Ant was being double team every time he got the ball but he didn't have sticky hands and the team benefited from it tonight.

I've been Big Ju's number 1 critic on this board, but he played arguably his best game as a Wolf tonight. Outside of one defensive misread on Braun's driving dunk he was flawless on both ends of the court. The ability to make his FT's down the stretch was huge. When his mind is in the game and his effort levels are high he is an elite player. Keep it up.

DDV doing DDV stuff. Huge fast break layout up then dagger 3 in the clutch sealed the game, to go along with the usual 'never give up' hussle plays.

Goberts and McDaniels defense on Jokic and Murray in the 4th quarter was ELITE. Austin Rivers was full of praise. Murray didn't score in the last 10 minutes of the game! Jokic only scored 4 points in the 4th quarter.

I thought the officiating was pretty good tonight for NBA standards. Outside of a tough call on McDaniels on Braun in the 4th and the Jokic flop when Rudy picked up his 5th foul they were pretty good. It was nice to see them not bite on Jokic flopping and failing around for the most part. One moment stands out when Rudy offensive rebounded over Jokic who was in the poor position and dunked it in the 4th quarter. Jokic flailed to try and buy a call but the officials let it play out. That's what the game needs and fans want.

[Q-is-here]

A few notes from the game:

Ant didn't score the last 6.30 of the game. The others stepped up, especially Big Ju and DDV. Ant was being double team every time he got the ball but he didn't have sticky hands and the team benefited from it tonight.

I've been Big Ju's number 1 critic on this board, but he played arguably his best game as a Wolf tonight. Outside of one defensive misread on Braun's driving dunk he was flawless on both ends of the court. The ability to make his FT's down the stretch was huge. When his mind is in the game and his effort levels are high he is an elite player. Keep it up.

DDV doing DDV stuff. Huge fast break layout up then dagger 3 in the clutch sealed the game, to go along with the usual 'never give up' hussle plays.

Goberts and McDaniels defense on Jokic and Murray in the 4th quarter was ELITE. Austin Rivers was full of praise. Murray didn't score in the last 10 minutes of the game! Jokic only scored 4 points in the 4th quarter.

I thought the officiating was pretty good tonight for NBA standards. Outside of a tough call on McDaniels on Braun in the 4th and the Jokic flop when Rudy picked up his 5th foul they were pretty good. It was nice to see them not bite on Jokic flopping and failing around for the most part. One moment stands out when Rudy offensive rebounded over Jokic who was in the poor position and dunked it in the 4th quarter. Jokic flailed to try and buy a call but the officials let it play out. That's what the game needs and fans want.

One thing that gets talked about is the rivalry and how much these two teams know each other from all their regular season and playoff games over the years, but then you look at how the rosters have changed and the sense of rivalry doesn't really resonate with at least half the players. But four of the constants include Jokic, Murray, Rudy, and Jaden.

That gets me to your point on Rudy and Jaden's late game defense. It felt like those two "solved" the vaunted Jokic/Murray two man game, at least for one quarter. You have to think the sheer volume of times they've had to defend that action has made them better at it.

[Coolbreeze44]

I thought it was all on Ant?

??

You said our roster was good enough for a star player to take it to a championship, yet game 1 they (non Ant players as a whole) basically sucked ass and we lost, game 2 they were good even really good and we won.

I said it before that how the others play dictates if we win or lose by far more then what Ant does, specifically Ju. We just get so many up and down games by the others that overcoming a stinker game by a few of them at once for Ant is really impossible.

I'm not stupid, I realize we need contributions from everyone. But Ant is our best player and if we consider him among the game's elite, he needs to be able to drag us through the fight and advance. He takes the shots and has the ball in his hands more than anyone else. If he's less than elite, we will probably lose.

[FNG]

Just watched back the full replay, and I just have so much respect for the hustle and physicality the Wolves played with wire to wire (well...2nd qtr wire).

The message was clear, make them work for everything. The biggest hat tip is to Jaden, just being able to stay with and win that assignment against Jamal while still being a plus on offense - he was completely unrelenting and it wore Murrary down. Ant, Ayo, and Donte with the assist too because while they didn't limit him as much, they still hounded him and made him work.
I just love that mentality, that even if they score on you, just remain focused and gritty enough to stay with it all game. Even Naz in the 3rd, yeah Jokic, backed him down and got buckets, but Naz still stayed physical even when he was clearly overmatched and I just respect the hell out of that.

Awesome game, awesome win. Donte is the dawgiest dawg of all the dawgs

I agree that several players did a fine job defending Murray, led by Jaden. The fact that he put up 30/7/7 despite facing tough defense underscores what a great player he is. But the defensive possession I remember best is the time Ju got switched onto him in the 4th quarter. Jamal's eyes got big, and you could see him thinking he could easily beat Julius. But he put on some of his best moves as he dribbled around, but Julius stayed in front of him the entire time. Eventually Jamal gave up and threw a grenade to a teammate. Julius is big, but we forgot how quick his feet are when he wants to play defense.

[Wolvesfan21]

??

You said our roster was good enough for a star player to take it to a championship, yet game 1 they (non Ant players as a whole) basically sucked ass and we lost, game 2 they were good even really good and we won.

I said it before that how the others play dictates if we win or lose by far more then what Ant does, specifically Ju. We just get so many up and down games by the others that overcoming a stinker game by a few of them at once for Ant is really impossible.

I'm not stupid, I realize we need contributions from everyone. But Ant is our best player and if we consider him among the game's elite, he needs to be able to drag us through the fight and advance. He takes the shots and has the ball in his hands more than anyone else. If he's less than elite, we will probably lose.

He's the most consistent player we have so his play varies the least. I would say him, then probably Rudy because defense travels well game to game, then probably Jaden. Beyond those three, we got some roller coaster type of action going on.

I would say our title chances all hinge on Ju and Naz. If we can get the closer to the best versions of them we have a shot. BUT, that seems very unlikely as both have been very up and down, more down the last half of the year.

I would love to see our win/loss rate with Ju's numbers in each. Then compare those to Ant's. That would be my point. It doesn't matter what Ant does or doesn't do, he's consistently good to great. Our win's and losses are mostly on the other guys.

Add the fact in that teams can and do double Ant, Forcing the other guys beat them. If they don't how is that now on Ant? It's not.

Like it or not our title chances really hinge on the others stepping up massively.

[Coolbreeze44]

You said our roster was good enough for a star player to take it to a championship, yet game 1 they (non Ant players as a whole) basically sucked ass and we lost, game 2 they were good even really good and we won.

I said it before that how the others play dictates if we win or lose by far more then what Ant does, specifically Ju. We just get so many up and down games by the others that overcoming a stinker game by a few of them at once for Ant is really impossible.

I'm not stupid, I realize we need contributions from everyone. But Ant is our best player and if we consider him among the game's elite, he needs to be able to drag us through the fight and advance. He takes the shots and has the ball in his hands more than anyone else. If he's less than elite, we will probably lose.

He's the most consistent player we have so his play varies the least. I would say him, then probably Rudy because defense travels well game to game, then probably Jaden. Beyond those three, we got some roller coaster type of action going on.

I would say our title chances all hinge on Ju and Naz. If we can get the closer to the best versions of them we have a shot. BUT, that seems very unlikely as both have been very up and down, more down the last half of the year.

I would love to see our win/loss rate with Ju's numbers in each. Then compare those to Ant's. That would be my point. It doesn't matter what Ant does or doesn't do, he's consistently good to great. Our win's and losses are mostly on the other guys.

Add the fact in that teams can and do double Ant, Forcing the other guys beat them. If they don't how is that now on Ant? It's not.

Like it or not our title chances really hinge on the others stepping up massively.

Gosh, where do i start? Was Ant consistently good to great in the conference finals last year? No he wasn't. Title chances hinging on Ju and NAZ? Please. Sorry to break this to you, but Ant's legacy does not depend on Ju and NAZ, just like Kobe's wasn't dependent on Pau Gasol and Derek Fisher. You have all your excuses lined up already so you can begin apologizing for Ant as soon as the playoffs are over. He's either one of the few best players or he's not. And if he is he needs to show it in the playoffs, that's what the great ones do.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm not stupid, I realize we need contributions from everyone. But Ant is our best player and if we consider him among the game's elite, he needs to be able to drag us through the fight and advance. He takes the shots and has the ball in his hands more than anyone else. If he's less than elite, we will probably lose.

He's the most consistent player we have so his play varies the least. I would say him, then probably Rudy because defense travels well game to game, then probably Jaden. Beyond those three, we got some roller coaster type of action going on.

I would say our title chances all hinge on Ju and Naz. If we can get the closer to the best versions of them we have a shot. BUT, that seems very unlikely as both have been very up and down, more down the last half of the year.

I would love to see our win/loss rate with Ju's numbers in each. Then compare those to Ant's. That would be my point. It doesn't matter what Ant does or doesn't do, he's consistently good to great. Our win's and losses are mostly on the other guys.

Add the fact in that teams can and do double Ant, Forcing the other guys beat them. If they don't how is that now on Ant? It's not.

Like it or not our title chances really hinge on the others stepping up massively.

Gosh, where do i start? Was Ant consistently good to great in the conference finals last year? No he wasn't. Title chances hinging on Ju and NAZ? Please. Sorry to break this to you, but Ant's legacy does not depend on Ju and NAZ, just like Kobe's wasn't dependent on Pau Gasol and Derek Fisher. You have all your excuses lined up already so you can begin apologizing for Ant as soon as the playoffs are over. He's either one of the few best players or he's not. And if he is he needs to show it in the playoffs, that's what the great ones do.

Yeah of course the title chances hinge on them. Did Ants game dip some against OKC? Yeah of course, they had the best team and defense, but at the same time Ju's game absolutely cratered! You simply cannot have one of your starting players be absolutely terrible and expect to win a series. The difference between Ant's drop and Ju's drop is the grand canyon.

That is the point. You're dislike for Ant has skewed your brain into blaming him and no one else. I even criticize Ant for not doing more, but at the same time, he's not been the biggest problem why we haven't advanced to the finals. He can do more, play better D consistently, be a better leader, etc. But bottom line is we need these other guys to show up!

They don't show up like game 1 and we lose, they show up in game 2 we win. No matter what Ant does or can do, he can't overcome terrible games by multiple other players.

Our title chances 100% hinge on those other guys showing up and I don't think they will.

[AbeVigodaLive]

You're both sort of right. Stats for the series dipped for both Randle and Edwards. But overall, a cursory look puts both at about the same level of dip from previous games/series.

The inconsistency with Randle, however, was the big thing. His bad games were really really awful. 6 points in Game 2 and 5 points in Game 4. He was actually pretty damn solid the other three games. But those two games are what we remember because he just cratered. It's a lot harder to win when the star player is at about 80% of normal production, and even further behind other superstar's production. It's impossible to win when the 2nd best player is arguably the worst player on the court.

Randle for the series:
17.5 ppg
5.8 reb
3.0 ast
48 / 48 / 86 shooting splits

Randle in his 2 bad games.
5.5 ppg (3 - 18 fg)
6.0 reb
4.0 ast
4.5 TO

[Wolvesfan21]

You're both sort of right. Stats for the series dipped for both Randle and Edwards. But overall, a cursory look puts both at about the same level of dip from previous games/series.

The inconsistency with Randle, however, was the big thing. His bad games were really really awful. 6 points in Game 2 and 5 points in Game 4. He was actually pretty damn solid the other three games. But those two games are what we remember because he just cratered. It's a lot harder to win when the star player is at about 80% of normal production, and even further behind other superstar's production. It's impossible to win when the 2nd best player is arguably the worst player on the court.

Randle for the series:
17.5 ppg
5.8 reb
3.0 ast
48 / 48 / 86 shooting splits

Randle in his 2 bad games.
5.5 ppg (3 - 18 fg)
6.0 reb
4.0 ast
4.5 TO

Those bad games is for sure what I remember. We had basically zero shot to win when he turns it over a ton and scores 5 or 6 points on terrible shooting. It's just a complete game wrecker of a performance. But if you're cool you say Ant needs to overcome that. I say it's ridiculous. We only have a chance if the other dudes at least show up. Play terrible like that and just forget it.

After that series I posted about how do we beat OKC with Ju on our team because of how bad he was. To his credit he was good to great in the first two series as well, but then went absolutely in the tank for at least 2 of those 5 games against OKC. 2 losses were directly tied to his poor play. Saying Ant has to make up for that is completely nonsense.

But the past is the past. We got a chance very slim chance to rewrite new history. I just feel like their is a limit on Ju's game though. Face an upper echelon defense and he becomes a major liability with the TO's and bad shooting, not to mention low rebounds and bad defense. So we'll see how the rest of this postseason plays out.

[DNatagal]

I love when Ant plays like a power forward in the paint on defense. He bodies up, defends the rim, and rebounds like a beast. This is the championship Ant that this team needs, and we rarely saw during the regular season.
Jordan never carried those shitty Bulls teams from his first few years to the Finals until he had some good BB players around him. Luc Longley was not Kareem, but he did enough to make it a team game. Along with Kerr, Paxton, Grant, et al, BB is a great team sport, as it allows Stars to shine, but the rest of the team has to be at least solid and not make a ton of mistakes that the Star cannot make up for.
So if Randle can be good enough and not cost the team with bad decisions, this team can compete and beat anyone. The Wolves had a stretch of games this season where they were top 5 in fewest turnovers, and they won. They turn the ball over and they struggle to win. This goes for most teams!