Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:To me the only interesting info is quoted below which is some good need for Tyus Jones fans.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/timberwolves-roster-news-nba-trade-rumors-karl-anthony-towns-jimmy-butler-andrew-wiggins/wz8imgz2vmi61y0pt35opiuul

"The player who has been most stonewalled by Thibodeau's preference for veterans -- to the frustration of Wolves fans -- has been backup point guard Tyus Jones, who is just 21 years old and played all 82 games last year. But his minutes fluctuated, his playing time sapped by the presence of Jamal Crawford (age 37) and midseason signee Derrick Rose. With starter Jeff Teague averaging 33.0 minutes and Crawford getting 20.7 minutes, there wasn't much room for Jones to continue his growth.

Teague, according to a source, went to Thibodeau during last season and suggested that Jones play more. The Wolves are considering bringing Rose back for next season, and that's fueled speculation that Jones would be traded this offseason -- a package of Jones and Minnesota's No. 20 pick could bring back some much-needed perimeter shooting.

But sources told Sporting News that Jones met with team management after the playoffs, and Thibodeau reasserted his support of Jones and his development. Even if the Wolves re-sign Rose, Jones was assured, his minutes and opportunities would increase because Crawford is not expected to return to the team. Rose mostly played shooting guard with the Wolves last season, so there's a chance Jones could play alongside Rose as a backcourt bench unit.

Jones had considered requesting a trade, but the meeting with the team defused that notion before it arose. And for now, at least, the Wolves have no intention of dealing him."

Monster cites the Jones portion of this article, but there are many more sections which are not very positive. The part about Butler not being sure about Wig's work ethic or defense is really troubling for a franchise that just locked into a 5-year max contract with him. The Memphis #4 and Parsons for Wig discussed in another thread would be a dream move...but it's a pipe dream and not going to happen. I'm more and more convinced that Thibs wants to move Wig this summer, but less and less confident in his ability to do so in a way that really helps this team. This article is quite troubling to me.

I also found it troubling. Add this article to reports about KAT being unhappy with Thibodeau along with reports of general malaise in the organization tied to Thibodeau's inability to form relationships internally and work collegially. Add the article to Crawford's exit and obvious unhappiness with Thibodeau. Add in Teague's complaints last season about Thibodeau's under-utilization of the bench and his failure to give Tyus more time. Think about how joyless this team was playing last season. Think about the fact that we are a completely cap-strapped team that barely made the playoffs last season. Considered together, these reports paint a picture of a dysfunctional organization about to implode. I could be wrong and hope I am. But I'm convinced the Wolves under Thibodeau are a train wreck in the making.

The drama sure has heated up in Minnesota when fans have time to stew. How our team is in worse shape then we were a few years ago is beyond me. Imagine if we had post injury Lavine facing an extension and Dunn presumably playing his way out of the league because of a horrible work ethic. Yuck. Butler is still a huge asset even if we have him for only one year. Taj is an expiring, Teague will be soon too. We get off Gourgi and we're flexible. Might Towns walk because he's a diva? Maybe. But that could happen with any coach or GM. The fact that we're in the playoff mix for now with some young assets is way past where we were. As usual everyone needs to relax, yes preparing for the worst is the Minnesota mindset, but it's almost like the mentality forces this crap into existence. Desperate trades now will only move us back out of the playoffs and make KAT want to leave sooner.... and we're not getting Doncic for Wiggins.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:Who says no?

Wizards: SG/SF Jimmy Butler, C Gorgui Dieng, No. 48 overall pick

Wolves: SF Otto Porter, PF Markieff Morris, No. 15 overall pick

I'd say no. That's not enough for Butler in my view. To trade Buter, I'd need a pick high enough in return to get an elite talent. That's why I like the Memphis deal.

This is a tough one for me. On one hand, I agree with you that the Wolves need to draft another potentially elite talent. However, if this trade was kicked around, I think I'd do it.

Otto Porter's two-way ability, versatility, overall efficiency, and youth has me pretty intrigued with this idea. How many 24-year olds in the league can say they've posted back-to-back seasons shooting better than 50% from the floor, 43% from three, and 82% from the line? Nobody else can. Actually, only five players in NBA history have had those shooting percentages as 18-24 year olds and scored more than 13.0 PPG -- Kawhi Leonard, Mark Price, Wally Szczerbiak, Byron Scott, and of course Porter. Not to mention he chips in 6.0+ rebounds per game, 1.5-2.0 assists per game, and 1.5 steals per game. Porter also was tied for second among small forwards in the league in Real Plus-Minus at 4.96 -- tied with LeBron James; better than Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Paul George, Khris Middleton, and Tobias Harris (who's being floated around as the center of a Kawhi Leonard trade package). He was tied with LeBron for 13th overall in RPM as well. Porter's also one of the better defensive wings in the league, though not necessarily elite in this regard.

The question is, I guess, could he take it up a notch and make that jump from spectacular role player to star player. We saw Kawhi Leonard do it. And by no means am I saying Porter will do it, just that I wouldn't slam that door shut yet with Porter turning just 25 on June 3rd. And he's locked up for the next two seasons with a player option for the third year.

In addition to Porter, we'd be ridding ourselves of Dieng's contract, filling a hole at power forward with Morris who can stretch the floor -- likely leaving Bjelica as the odd man out and an avoided risk in FA -- and getting a pick one selection outside of the lottery. That's a draft position where Miles Bridges, Khyri Thomas, and Kevin Huerter are all potentially available. I'd be really surprised if it happened, but I'd be very supportive of it if it did.

I would do Butler for Doncic on draft day if at all possible. The more I watch on him I think he's going to be a stud. He's like a white version of LeBron, not as strong or athletic obviously. Size, vision, passing, shooting. That's the closest comparison I see. Any teams passing up on him will regret it forever.

People are quick to forget that we were a 3rd/4th seed in the WEST before Butlers injury. Yes we had a relatively easy schedule up until that point, but there's no doubt in my mind that we would have been fighting for home court if he hadn't. But we ended up fighting just to get into the playoffs. Butler is a winner. Something we haven't had since prime KG.

Another reason I want us to resign Butler is I think his game ages well, even with the numerous injuries he's had. Above all he relies on craftiness which will only get better as his speed and athleticism declines. Defensively his motor is second to none.

I understand why people on this board have mentioned trading Butler to get younger and assets. But haven't we been on that journey since the post KG era? And how much faith do you have in our front office, management and coaching to pick and developed players.

We have to keep our core of KAT, Butler and Wiggins together for at least one more season. IMO Jeff Teagues the odd man out and I would look to move him for an adequate starting PG and a decent back up wing. As per my previously posted trade. This roster just needs a few tweaks, not a major overhaul.

KiwiMatt wrote:People are quick to forget that we were a 3rd/4th seed in the WEST before Butlers injury. Yes we had a relatively easy schedule up until that point, but there's no doubt in my mind that we would have been fighting for home court if he hadn't. But we ended up fighting just to get into the playoffs. Butler is a winner. Something we haven't had since prime KG.

Another reason I want us to resign Butler is I think his game ages well, even with the numerous injuries he's had. Above all he relies on craftiness which will only get better as his speed and athleticism declines. Defensively his motor is second to none.

I understand why people on this board have mentioned trading Butler to get younger and assets. But haven't we been on that journey since the post KG era? And how much faith do you have in our front office, management and coaching to pick and developed players.

We have to keep our core of KAT, Butler and Wiggins together for at least one more season. IMO Jeff Teagues the odd man out and I would look to move him for an adequate starting PG and a decent back up wing. As per my previously posted trade. This roster just needs a few tweaks, not a major overhaul.

Stop being so logical. The sky is clearly falling. Don't forget that Thibs swears too much. It's really bad.

I'll put this in the offseason thread, although the chance of an offseason move regarding Thibs is miniscule.

Nate Robinson says the NBA caused his mental health issues, and specifically cited Thibs and Larry Brown. Hard to understand why he would have had a problem with thibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlL0HjzOKrg

I'm guessing we will get a bunch of "oh, it's just nate robinson" posts. But I can just see the free agents lining up to beg to come play for thibs.

Here are my thoughts on the Butler trade proposals. First off the Wolves are in an awkward spot going forward because we are capped out and we are relying on 2 young players to take major steps. We need Kat to take the Anthony Davis step this year and we need Wiggins to become an all star caliber player. Are both realistic probably not but they are critical for the Wolves to ever become a championship caliber team. If they don't take this step it doesn't matter what we do with Butler.

Im in the boat of keeping Butler because we were the 3 seed before he got hurt and that was without any massive improvements from Wiggins and Kat. My thinking is even if it is a really low probability is we keep Butler (Hopefully to a shorter max deal like a lot fo the stars of the NBA are doing these days). If Wiggins and Kat take the necessary steps forward in their games I think we are a championship contender because Kat is a matchup nightmare and we would have 2 all star wings to match up with Durant/Klay and Steph.

My main thing is keep making the playoffs, keep getting the experience and hopefully our young players make the step forward and if not it doesn't matter if Butler is on this team or not. Even if we would trade Butler for Doncic we would still need Doncic to get to Butler level of play and we still need Wiggins and Kat to improve dramatically. We also would not gain any cap space to acquire all star talent if we traded Butler for Doncic we would still be capped out.

There is no great answer for the Wolves going forward but I am down with keeping top tier talent in Butler on the roster then go back to full rebuild mode.

Bottom line we go nowhere if Kat and Wiggins don't take massive steps forward.

longstrangetrip wrote:I'll put this in the offseason thread, although the chance of an offseason move regarding Thibs is miniscule.

Nate Robinson says the NBA caused his mental health issues, and specifically cited Thibs and Larry Brown. Hard to understand why he would have had a problem with thibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlL0HjzOKrg

I'm guessing we will get a bunch of "oh, it's just nate robinson" posts. But I can just see the free agents lining up to beg to come play for thibs.

Eh, I'd read that article again if you think Thibs shared anymore spotlight than any other coach. "He's suited up for New York, Chicago, Boston, Denver, Golden State, Oklahoma City, New Orleans and the Los Angeles Clippers, and memories of coaches telling him to tone himself down all blur into one."

Thibs arguably got the best out of Nate Robinson on his way out of the league.

"Robinson fantasized about retiring in Chicago, but he says tensions with coach Tom Thibodeau escalated privately, as Robinson's focus and maturity were once again issues."

You're not going to get leeway as a 8th, 9th, 10th man. Brown was awful, D'antoni benched him, Gentry didn't think he took the game serious, and sounds like Thibs didn't either. It's sad it led to depression, but I don't know what coaches are suppose to do if coach after coach believe he's not taking things seriously.

longstrangetrip wrote:I'll put this in the offseason thread, although the chance of an offseason move regarding Thibs is miniscule.

Nate Robinson says the NBA caused his mental health issues, and specifically cited Thibs and Larry Brown. Hard to understand why he would have had a problem with thibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlL0HjzOKrg

I'm guessing we will get a bunch of "oh, it's just nate robinson" posts. But I can just see the free agents lining up to beg to come play for thibs.

If what is said about larry brown is true, then brown is a piece of shit! He didnt even denied it by simply saying he dont recall doing that, and if he did, shame on himself. What a douch. I understand the old school approach of toughening up players. But mental health issues is serious especially in today's world. I hate reading stories like that.