Time to punch back. . .again Wolves at Nuggets GAME TWO GDT

[Coolbreeze44]

He's the most consistent player we have so his play varies the least. I would say him, then probably Rudy because defense travels well game to game, then probably Jaden. Beyond those three, we got some roller coaster type of action going on.

I would say our title chances all hinge on Ju and Naz. If we can get the closer to the best versions of them we have a shot. BUT, that seems very unlikely as both have been very up and down, more down the last half of the year.

I would love to see our win/loss rate with Ju's numbers in each. Then compare those to Ant's. That would be my point. It doesn't matter what Ant does or doesn't do, he's consistently good to great. Our win's and losses are mostly on the other guys.

Add the fact in that teams can and do double Ant, Forcing the other guys beat them. If they don't how is that now on Ant? It's not.

Like it or not our title chances really hinge on the others stepping up massively.

Gosh, where do i start? Was Ant consistently good to great in the conference finals last year? No he wasn't. Title chances hinging on Ju and NAZ? Please. Sorry to break this to you, but Ant's legacy does not depend on Ju and NAZ, just like Kobe's wasn't dependent on Pau Gasol and Derek Fisher. You have all your excuses lined up already so you can begin apologizing for Ant as soon as the playoffs are over. He's either one of the few best players or he's not. And if he is he needs to show it in the playoffs, that's what the great ones do.

Yeah of course the title chances hinge on them. Did Ants game dip some against OKC? Yeah of course, they had the best team and defense, but at the same time Ju's game absolutely cratered! You simply cannot have one of your starting players be absolutely terrible and expect to win a series. The difference between Ant's drop and Ju's drop is the grand canyon.

That is the point. You're dislike for Ant has skewed your brain into blaming him and no one else. I even criticize Ant for not doing more, but at the same time, he's not been the biggest problem why we haven't advanced to the finals. He can do more, play better D consistently, be a better leader, etc. But bottom line is we need these other guys to show up!

They don't show up like game 1 and we lose, they show up in game 2 we win. No matter what Ant does or can do, he can't overcome terrible games by multiple other players.

Our title chances 100% hinge on those other guys showing up and I don't think they will.

There you go with the "I don't like Ant" discourse. I've never said it, it's not true, and you really don't understand where I'm coming from. What is true is I don't think he's as good as you do. At least not today. No one is rooting for him as hard as I am. I hope he makes me look dumb for not trusting him.

If you've read anything I've written over the last couple years, you would know I'm not the biggest Julius supporter. Yet I I'd like nothing more than to see him do well. I've been a Wolves fan since 1987, probably before you were even born. I sat in the Metrodome watching Bill Musselman squeeze everything possible out of an expansion franchise. I've been present for every miserable season, every lousy first round pick, every stupid trade. You don't have the grounds to make assumptions about me as a fan. If you can't handle my objectivity, that's on you. If your feelings get hurt because I'm not blindly waving the pom pons, I'm sorry. But I understand the game having been around it all my life. I understand what goes into making a great player, and I especially understand what it takes to win. You don't have to agree with my opinions, but don't make declaritive statements about my allegiances to this franchise.

[Wolvesfan21]

Gosh, where do i start? Was Ant consistently good to great in the conference finals last year? No he wasn't. Title chances hinging on Ju and NAZ? Please. Sorry to break this to you, but Ant's legacy does not depend on Ju and NAZ, just like Kobe's wasn't dependent on Pau Gasol and Derek Fisher. You have all your excuses lined up already so you can begin apologizing for Ant as soon as the playoffs are over. He's either one of the few best players or he's not. And if he is he needs to show it in the playoffs, that's what the great ones do.

Yeah of course the title chances hinge on them. Did Ants game dip some against OKC? Yeah of course, they had the best team and defense, but at the same time Ju's game absolutely cratered! You simply cannot have one of your starting players be absolutely terrible and expect to win a series. The difference between Ant's drop and Ju's drop is the grand canyon.

That is the point. You're dislike for Ant has skewed your brain into blaming him and no one else. I even criticize Ant for not doing more, but at the same time, he's not been the biggest problem why we haven't advanced to the finals. He can do more, play better D consistently, be a better leader, etc. But bottom line is we need these other guys to show up!

They don't show up like game 1 and we lose, they show up in game 2 we win. No matter what Ant does or can do, he can't overcome terrible games by multiple other players.

Our title chances 100% hinge on those other guys showing up and I don't think they will.

There you go with the "I don't like Ant" discourse. I've never said it, it's not true, and you really don't understand where I'm coming from. What is true is I don't think he's as good as you do. At least not today. No one is rooting for him as hard as I am. I hope he makes me look dumb for not trusting him.

If you've read anything I've written over the last couple years, you would know I'm not the biggest Julius supporter. Yet I I'd like nothing more than to see him do well. I've been a Wolves fan since 1987, probably before you were even born. I sat in the Metrodome watching Bill Musselman squeeze everything possible out of an expansion franchise. I've been present for every miserable season, every lousy first round pick, every stupid trade. You don't have the grounds to make assumptions about me as a fan. If you can't handle my objectivity, that's on you. If your feelings get hurt because I'm not blindly waving the pom pons, I'm sorry. But I understand the game having been around it all my life. I understand what goes into making a great player, and I especially understand what it takes to win. You don't have to agree with my opinions, but don't make declaritive statements about my allegiances to this franchise.

I never said anything about your fandom so I don't know where thats coming from. I only said your dislike for Ant which you've stated for his off the court behavior. You also don't think he'll win a championship. Maybe "dislike" is the wrong word, meh whatever. I've been critical of Ant too, but I don't put everything on him as much as you do, or think should be on him.

It really takes a team to get it done but it does start with him. I'm just non biased when looking at the entire picture. I do blame Ant to some extent, but to say we have a roster that should win a chip with a true superstar or whatever you said is a a ways off. With how we got dealt with against OKC in the WCF last season and the minimal changes, if not backwards movement in the roster from last year makes it even a taller task.

Also the first year was 89 (not 87) in the dome, I was there too.

[Coolbreeze44]

Yeah of course the title chances hinge on them. Did Ants game dip some against OKC? Yeah of course, they had the best team and defense, but at the same time Ju's game absolutely cratered! You simply cannot have one of your starting players be absolutely terrible and expect to win a series. The difference between Ant's drop and Ju's drop is the grand canyon.

That is the point. You're dislike for Ant has skewed your brain into blaming him and no one else. I even criticize Ant for not doing more, but at the same time, he's not been the biggest problem why we haven't advanced to the finals. He can do more, play better D consistently, be a better leader, etc. But bottom line is we need these other guys to show up!

They don't show up like game 1 and we lose, they show up in game 2 we win. No matter what Ant does or can do, he can't overcome terrible games by multiple other players.

Our title chances 100% hinge on those other guys showing up and I don't think they will.

There you go with the "I don't like Ant" discourse. I've never said it, it's not true, and you really don't understand where I'm coming from. What is true is I don't think he's as good as you do. At least not today. No one is rooting for him as hard as I am. I hope he makes me look dumb for not trusting him.

If you've read anything I've written over the last couple years, you would know I'm not the biggest Julius supporter. Yet I I'd like nothing more than to see him do well. I've been a Wolves fan since 1987, probably before you were even born. I sat in the Metrodome watching Bill Musselman squeeze everything possible out of an expansion franchise. I've been present for every miserable season, every lousy first round pick, every stupid trade. You don't have the grounds to make assumptions about me as a fan. If you can't handle my objectivity, that's on you. If your feelings get hurt because I'm not blindly waving the pom pons, I'm sorry. But I understand the game having been around it all my life. I understand what goes into making a great player, and I especially understand what it takes to win. You don't have to agree with my opinions, but don't make declaritive statements about my allegiances to this franchise.

I never said anything about your fandom so I don't know where thats coming from. I only said your dislike for Ant which you've stated for his off the court behavior. You also don't think he'll win a championship. Maybe "dislike" is the wrong word, meh whatever. I've been critical of Ant too, but I don't put everything on him as much as you do, or think should be on him.

It really takes a team to get it done but it does start with him. I'm just non biased when looking at the entire picture. I do blame Ant to some extent, but to say we have a roster that should win a chip with a true superstar or whatever you said is a a ways off. With how we got dealt with against OKC in the WCF last season and the minimal changes, if not backwards movement in the roster from last year makes it even a taller task.

Also the first year was 89 (not 87) in the dome, I was there too.

On this exact date in 1987, Minnesota was awarded an NBA franchise. That is the day I became a fan, 39 years ago.

[Wolvesfan21]

There you go with the "I don't like Ant" discourse. I've never said it, it's not true, and you really don't understand where I'm coming from. What is true is I don't think he's as good as you do. At least not today. No one is rooting for him as hard as I am. I hope he makes me look dumb for not trusting him.

If you've read anything I've written over the last couple years, you would know I'm not the biggest Julius supporter. Yet I I'd like nothing more than to see him do well. I've been a Wolves fan since 1987, probably before you were even born. I sat in the Metrodome watching Bill Musselman squeeze everything possible out of an expansion franchise. I've been present for every miserable season, every lousy first round pick, every stupid trade. You don't have the grounds to make assumptions about me as a fan. If you can't handle my objectivity, that's on you. If your feelings get hurt because I'm not blindly waving the pom pons, I'm sorry. But I understand the game having been around it all my life. I understand what goes into making a great player, and I especially understand what it takes to win. You don't have to agree with my opinions, but don't make declaritive statements about my allegiances to this franchise.

I never said anything about your fandom so I don't know where thats coming from. I only said your dislike for Ant which you've stated for his off the court behavior. You also don't think he'll win a championship. Maybe "dislike" is the wrong word, meh whatever. I've been critical of Ant too, but I don't put everything on him as much as you do, or think should be on him.

It really takes a team to get it done but it does start with him. I'm just non biased when looking at the entire picture. I do blame Ant to some extent, but to say we have a roster that should win a chip with a true superstar or whatever you said is a a ways off. With how we got dealt with against OKC in the WCF last season and the minimal changes, if not backwards movement in the roster from last year makes it even a taller task.

Also the first year was 89 (not 87) in the dome, I was there too.

On this exact date in 1987, Minnesota was awarded an NBA franchise. That is the day I became a fan, 39 years ago.

I wasn't a fan till 89 when I went to my first game.

[Q-is-here]

You're both sort of right. Stats for the series dipped for both Randle and Edwards. But overall, a cursory look puts both at about the same level of dip from previous games/series.

The inconsistency with Randle, however, was the big thing. His bad games were really really awful. 6 points in Game 2 and 5 points in Game 4. He was actually pretty damn solid the other three games. But those two games are what we remember because he just cratered. It's a lot harder to win when the star player is at about 80% of normal production, and even further behind other superstar's production. It's impossible to win when the 2nd best player is arguably the worst player on the court.

Randle for the series:
17.5 ppg
5.8 reb
3.0 ast
48 / 48 / 86 shooting splits

Randle in his 2 bad games.
5.5 ppg (3 - 18 fg)
6.0 reb
4.0 ast
4.5 TO

Ant in the four losses to OKC:
21.2 PPG
41% FG
7.0 reb
4.3 ast
3.0 TO

Ant was by no means great, but to your point, the variance wasn't nearly as bad. His worst game was probably game 4 where he scored 16 points and was pretty inefficient.

The problem is that Julius's backup, Naz Reid, might have been even worse! He had 4 points in game 1 on 1-11 shooting and was a -21 in 27 minutes. He went 0 for his first 12 3-pointers in the series and had his pocket picked repeatedly. Terrible!

OKC was historically good defensively (and still are), so I give them a ton of credit. We really had no chance in that series.

[Q-is-here]

Like it or not our title chances really hinge on the others stepping up massively.

Wolvesfan, I think you are mostly right, especially this year where Ant isn't 100% healthy and is still needing to mature into a finished playoff product.

The team I always go back to is Boston from two seasons ago when they won the title. Neither Tatum or Brown were all that spectacular throughout the playoffs. In fact, Tatum never really found his shot and only averaged 22 PPG during the playoffs. Brown won the Finals MVP, but even he wasn't all that spectacular.

But what they did have was SUPERB 3rd, 4th, and 5th guys in Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, and Al Horford. They played great defense and made their 3s.

The West especially requires almost a perfect set of complimentary pieces in addition to a couple of stars. The fact Jokic, probably the 2nd best player we've seen this century with LeBron being 1st, has only been to one Finals tells you all you need to know about the West and today's NBA. It's tough out there!

[Wolvesfan21]

Like it or not our title chances really hinge on the others stepping up massively.

Wolvesfan, I think you are mostly right, especially this year where Ant isn't 100% healthy and is still needing to mature into a finished playoff product.

The team I always go back to is Boston from two seasons ago when they won the title. Neither Tatum or Brown were all that spectacular throughout the playoffs. In fact, Tatum never really found his shot and only averaged 22 PPG during the playoffs. Brown won the Finals MVP, but even he wasn't all that spectacular.

But what they did have was SUPERB 3rd, 4th, and 5th guys in Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, and Al Horford. They played great defense and made their 3s.

The West especially requires almost a perfect set of complimentary pieces in addition to a couple of stars. The fact Jokic, probably the 2nd best player we've seen this century with LeBron being 1st, has only been to one Finals tells you all you need to know about the West and today's NBA. It's tough out there!

Yeah Boston's non "stars" were really amazing during that run. To think we can go all the way without Ju and Naz playing well is crazy to me. We need them to play above their avg or norm I'd say to keep winning each series, especially OKC.

I guess I am singling out those two because they were the worst performers last year in the OKC series (maybe Rudy too) but also they have not been playing well really for months. I think we're asking a lot, plus for the others besides them to keep up their ends too.

The big problem we have too is we rely on Ju to score and pass a a ton. So when our (second?) best player is dogshit in a game, what chance do we have? Second in usage maybe. I'd argue Rudy is a better overall player.

[AbeVigodaLive]

You're both sort of right. Stats for the series dipped for both Randle and Edwards. But overall, a cursory look puts both at about the same level of dip from previous games/series.

The problem is that Julius's backup, Naz Reid, might have been even worse! He had 4 points in game 1 on 1-11 shooting and was a -21 in 27 minutes. He went 0 for his first 12 3-pointers in the series and had his pocket picked repeatedly. Terrible!

OKC was historically good defensively (and still are), so I give them a ton of credit. We really had no chance in that series.

Damn it, Q. I really want to dig Naz Reid more. And then you get me started on this...

- Reid has averaged 5+ makes per game over the past three regular seasons. He has made at least 5 shots in 140 of 238 games. (59% of the time)
- In the playoffs, however, he's made 5 or more shots in only 2 of his past 16 games. (13%)

[Q-is-here]

You're both sort of right. Stats for the series dipped for both Randle and Edwards. But overall, a cursory look puts both at about the same level of dip from previous games/series.

The problem is that Julius's backup, Naz Reid, might have been even worse! He had 4 points in game 1 on 1-11 shooting and was a -21 in 27 minutes. He went 0 for his first 12 3-pointers in the series and had his pocket picked repeatedly. Terrible!

OKC was historically good defensively (and still are), so I give them a ton of credit. We really had no chance in that series.

Damn it, Q. I really want to dig Naz Reid more. And then you get me started on this...

- Reid has averaged 5+ makes per game over the past three regular seasons. He has made at least 5 shots in 140 of 238 games. (59% of the time)
- In the playoffs, however, he's made 5 or more shots in only 2 of his past 16 games. (13%)

That is absolutely nuts and just totally unacceptable. I know I've been crapping on Naz for his career playoff track record, but it's even worse than I thought. I want him gone (along with Julius) unless he somehow turns it around this playoff season, which may be short-lived if he can't pull his weight.