Playoffs thread

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Golden State and Cleveland - shockingly - appear to be coasting to the Finals.

I just don't see how Cleveland stops Golden State. Durant is takes them over the top.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The Raptors should let Lowry walk, not only because he's a choker but because they are just fine with Cory Joseph what a great player.

That being said Lebron really did make the Raptors look like kids this series he has reached another level. I'm glad he is proving to be a tank like Karl Malone so we can witness this. Hopefully it runs out by the time we make our championship push though!

The Raps had been building so well and now...man they have some decisions to make. I've been on the Cory Joseph bandwagon since his first year in Toronto. You are right he is a good player.

D Carroll's contract isn't that bad since the cap went up but he hasn't really been the awesome signing that I know I thought he would be. I am gonna admit here I was wrong on that one. He could be a cautionary tale of some of these not star players we are talking about and he SEEMED headed up. Sigh. Thibs and Layden have their work cut out for themselves.

Yeah, really tough to predict how these vet signings pay off. But this is the summer to roll the dice - we're going to have to place our bets on one or two vets that Thibs think could be major parts of the rotation.

[thedoper]

The Raptors should let Lowry walk, not only because he's a choker but because they are just fine with Cory Joseph what a great player.

That being said Lebron really did make the Raptors look like kids this series he has reached another level. I'm glad he is proving to be a tank like Karl Malone so we can witness this. Hopefully it runs out by the time we make our championship push though!

The Raps had been building so well and now...man they have some decisions to make. I've been on the Cory Joseph bandwagon since his first year in Toronto. You are right he is a good player.

D Carroll's contract isn't that bad since the cap went up but he hasn't really been the awesome signing that I know I thought he would be. I am gonna admit here I was wrong on that one. He could be a cautionary tale of some of these not star players we are talking about and he SEEMED headed up. Sigh. Thibs and Layden have their work cut out for themselves.

Yeah, really tough to predict how these vet signings pay off. But this is the summer to roll the dice - we're going to have to place our bets on one or two vets that Thibs think could be major parts of the rotation.

Isn't the cautionary tale for vet signings not to sign someone because of one great post season run or great advanced stats as a bench warmer? Aldrich was always mediocre but we extrapolated his advanced stats to real minutes, fail. Biyambo was the huge play last year after 10 great games in the playoffs. I think the main thing is to try not to get too smart. If someone is not a starter after 6-8 years in the league there is probably a reason for that. Carroll had injuries since he got to Toronto, but certainly has not panned out. We need a starter, we should sign a starter who has a sustained history of significant minutes and performance. The only way we should take a flyer on someone is if they're young and have a all-star in front of them, that is not really a risk though because that should be a more reasonable deal.

[Lipoli390]

The Raptors should let Lowry walk, not only because he's a choker but because they are just fine with Cory Joseph what a great player.

That being said Lebron really did make the Raptors look like kids this series he has reached another level. I'm glad he is proving to be a tank like Karl Malone so we can witness this. Hopefully it runs out by the time we make our championship push though!

The Raps had been building so well and now...man they have some decisions to make. I've been on the Cory Joseph bandwagon since his first year in Toronto. You are right he is a good player.

D Carroll's contract isn't that bad since the cap went up but he hasn't really been the awesome signing that I know I thought he would be. I am gonna admit here I was wrong on that one. He could be a cautionary tale of some of these not star players we are talking about and he SEEMED headed up. Sigh. Thibs and Layden have their work cut out for themselves.

Yeah, really tough to predict how these vet signings pay off. But this is the summer to roll the dice - we're going to have to place our bets on one or two vets that Thibs think could be major parts of the rotation.

Isn't the cautionary tale for vet signings not to sign someone because of one great post season run or great advanced stats as a bench warmer? Aldrich was always mediocre but we extrapolated his advanced stats to real minutes, fail. Biyambo was the huge play last year after 10 great games in the playoffs. I think the main thing is to try not to get too smart. If someone is not a starter after 6-8 years in the league there is probably a reason for that. Carroll had injuries since he got to Toronto, but certainly has not panned out. We need a starter, we should sign a starter who has a sustained history of significant minutes and performance. The only way we should take a flyer on someone is if they're young and have a all-star in front of them, that is not really a risk though because that should be a more reasonable deal.

I agree completely, Doper. You should send your post to Thibs.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The Raptors should let Lowry walk, not only because he's a choker but because they are just fine with Cory Joseph what a great player.

That being said Lebron really did make the Raptors look like kids this series he has reached another level. I'm glad he is proving to be a tank like Karl Malone so we can witness this. Hopefully it runs out by the time we make our championship push though!

The Raps had been building so well and now...man they have some decisions to make. I've been on the Cory Joseph bandwagon since his first year in Toronto. You are right he is a good player.

D Carroll's contract isn't that bad since the cap went up but he hasn't really been the awesome signing that I know I thought he would be. I am gonna admit here I was wrong on that one. He could be a cautionary tale of some of these not star players we are talking about and he SEEMED headed up. Sigh. Thibs and Layden have their work cut out for themselves.

Yeah, really tough to predict how these vet signings pay off. But this is the summer to roll the dice - we're going to have to place our bets on one or two vets that Thibs think could be major parts of the rotation.

Isn't the cautionary tale for vet signings not to sign someone because of one great post season run or great advanced stats as a bench warmer? Aldrich was always mediocre but we extrapolated his advanced stats to real minutes, fail. Biyambo was the huge play last year after 10 great games in the playoffs. I think the main thing is to try not to get too smart. If someone is not a starter after 6-8 years in the league there is probably a reason for that. Carroll had injuries since he got to Toronto, but certainly has not panned out. We need a starter, we should sign a starter who has a sustained history of significant minutes and performance. The only way we should take a flyer on someone is if they're young and have a all-star in front of them, that is not really a risk though because that should be a more reasonable deal.

On Aldrich, we asked him to play no bigger role for us than he did for the Clippers or Knicks in the two seasons prior. We didn't sign him to start or play big minutes, so that's not extrapolating.

What about James Johnson? He had a heck of a season for Miami despite being mostly a career bench player.

Isn't Luol Deng a cautionary tale? He was an established starter that fell of a cliff for the Lakers this past season. Even Ibaka to a degree is a bit of a cautionary tale, as Orlando actually got worse on defense after he was signed, and while he had his moments in the playoffs, he certainly had minimal affect on preventing Toronto from being swept by Cleveland.

My point is I don't think that there is a takeaway that can be neatly summarized. By all means, I think we should aim big and go for someone like Milsap. But the reality is we may end up having to go to Plan B or C and that entails taking some risks.

[thedoper]

The Raptors should let Lowry walk, not only because he's a choker but because they are just fine with Cory Joseph what a great player.

That being said Lebron really did make the Raptors look like kids this series he has reached another level. I'm glad he is proving to be a tank like Karl Malone so we can witness this. Hopefully it runs out by the time we make our championship push though!

The Raps had been building so well and now...man they have some decisions to make. I've been on the Cory Joseph bandwagon since his first year in Toronto. You are right he is a good player.

D Carroll's contract isn't that bad since the cap went up but he hasn't really been the awesome signing that I know I thought he would be. I am gonna admit here I was wrong on that one. He could be a cautionary tale of some of these not star players we are talking about and he SEEMED headed up. Sigh. Thibs and Layden have their work cut out for themselves.

Yeah, really tough to predict how these vet signings pay off. But this is the summer to roll the dice - we're going to have to place our bets on one or two vets that Thibs think could be major parts of the rotation.

Isn't the cautionary tale for vet signings not to sign someone because of one great post season run or great advanced stats as a bench warmer? Aldrich was always mediocre but we extrapolated his advanced stats to real minutes, fail. Biyambo was the huge play last year after 10 great games in the playoffs. I think the main thing is to try not to get too smart. If someone is not a starter after 6-8 years in the league there is probably a reason for that. Carroll had injuries since he got to Toronto, but certainly has not panned out. We need a starter, we should sign a starter who has a sustained history of significant minutes and performance. The only way we should take a flyer on someone is if they're young and have a all-star in front of them, that is not really a risk though because that should be a more reasonable deal.

On Aldrich, we asked him to play no bigger role for us than he did for the Clippers or Knicks in the two seasons prior. We didn't sign him to start or play big minutes, so that's not extrapolating.

What about James Johnson? He had a heck of a season for Miami despite being mostly a career bench player.

Isn't Luol Deng a cautionary tale? He was an established starter that fell of a cliff for the Lakers this past season. Even Ibaka to a degree is a bit of a cautionary tale, as Orlando actually got worse on defense after he was signed, and while he had his moments in the playoffs, he certainly had minimal affect on preventing Toronto from being swept by Cleveland.

My point is I don't think that there is a takeaway that can be neatly summarized. By all means, I think we should aim big and go for someone like Milsap. But the reality is we may end up having to go to Plan B or C and that entails taking some risks.

Old vets can be added to the cautionary list if you want. I think that if James Johnson sticks than he may be an exception to the rule, also in a contract year. That being said Johnson would be the kind of player I would stay away from to pay stater money. As I see it the list of players that get overpaid from GM's trying to be cute is longer than the list of undervalued players who flourish when getting paid more money as starters.

Overall I think we all recognize that plans B-D are likely a reality because of the nature of our franchise. I guess I'd prefer B or C to be a starter with risks (like Gallanari), than overpaying PJ Tucker/Patterson, and I like those players just not for 15 mil or whatever he might get from a brash and desperate GM.

All that being said the one year we have money seems to get really thin after Milsap and Ibaka for what we need. So many risks out there, seems fitting for our franchise somehow.

[Porckchop]

Lebron has had Durant a number. There's only one basketball. Lebron can limit Durants effectiveness while Durant hasn't proven able to stop lebron. That's why I think the Cavs still have the edge.

[thedoper]

Lebron has had Durant a number. There's only one basketball. Lebron can limit Durants effectiveness while Durant hasn't proven able to stop lebron. That's why I think the Cavs still have the edge.

I agree with this. It's really about how much better is Lebron than Durant, which is a great narrative. Player by player is interesting, by talent level not position by position:

Lebron > Durant (how much better)
Irving < Curry (this may be closer than we realize)
Love < Klay (But close)
Thompson < Draymond
JR Smith > ZAZA
Cleveland Bench > Warriors Bench (I realize this is debateable)

Warriors have more talent but it isn't nearly as extreme as I assumed. I think it really will come down to Lebron and how much he can get over on Durant.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Lebron has had Durant a number. There's only one basketball. Lebron can limit Durants effectiveness while Durant hasn't proven able to stop lebron. That's why I think the Cavs still have the edge.

I agree with this. It's really about how much better is Lebron than Durant, which is a great narrative. Player by player is interesting, by talent level not position by position:

Lebron > Durant (how much better)
Irving < Curry (this may be closer than we realize)
Love < Klay (But close)
Thompson < Draymond
JR Smith > ZAZA
Cleveland Bench > Warriors Bench (I realize this is debateable)

Warriors have more talent but it isn't nearly as extreme as I assumed. I think it really will come down to Lebron and how much he can get over on Durant.

It's not Lebron vs Durant though. It's Lebron vs a combination of Durant, Klay, Iggy and Draymond. Meanwhile nobody else on Cleveland can check Durant. LeBron is gonna have to stick to KD while GS has multiple options to stick on Lebron to give guys rest on defense. If Draymond doesn't get suspended last year, GS probably closes that series out because Cleveland got their life back during the suspension game. Now add in Durant to GS and I just don't know how Cleveland wins.

[Monster]

On signing vets or players that haven't been starters...

I don't get complaining about Aldrich either. The guy is making 7 million a year is a local guy and had 3 seasons of plenty competent play 2 of which were for the Knicks and is guanteed money for just 1 more season.

Some players it's all about fit or if that organization is actually good at getting something out of that player. JJ Barea I thought some team would play him too much money...and then the Wolves paid him a decent chunk of money. Lol. His first year here he was actually pretty good then he was asked to do too much people hated him. His contract was just fine actually. Then he goes back to Dallas and becomes a very useful player. Some people thought Delly getting all that money last offseason was too much. It looks like a pretty good move. Some people thought the Raps gave Cory Joseph too much money to be a backup...reminds me of when the Kings paid for Bobby jackson...anyway some of these deals work out well some times they don't. For 10+ years RARELY did a mid-level guy end up being worth the money he was being paid.

The problem with the Wolves is the way they are built and we're last year as well they are so young it makes all the sense in the world to add some legit rotation vets to the roster that fit with the guys we have. They need a guy better than Rush or Jordan Hill or Aldrich. How much to you go after and pay a guy? I don't think there is a Joe Johnson this year that's an older really accomplished player that doesn't cost a crazy amount of money and can come in and help a young team like he did with the Jazz this year but that would be really nice.