Minnesota Sports Forum

KiwiMatt wrote:Gorgui Dieng, Cole Aldrich (and Jamal Crawford if opts in and can be traded) to Orlando for Bismack Biyombo and Jonathan Simmons.

Why for Orlando? Shed Bismarck's contract and gain cap relief with Cole Aldrich's expiring contract (or can be bought out for 1 mil I think). Dieng has an extra year on his contract but is 4 mil cheaper per.

Why for Minnesota? Simmons give us a legit 3rd wing who can slot in to starting lineup if required. Reasonable contract too. Bismack gives us shot blocking and defensive rebounding and can play next to KAT and Belly. His contract is a burden but expires a year earlier than Diengs. Problem is it will make it incredibly difficult to resign KAT and Butler without going into the lux, but this the price Glen has to pay if he wants to be a serious contender.

We could use MLE to resign Belly and still have our 1st rounder to pick a prospect.

Teague / Jones / Not Derrick Rose
Butler / Simmons / 3 Pt Shooter
Wiggins / MGH / Brown
Gibson / Belly / Johnson
KAT / Biyombo / Patton

I really like this deal but don't think that Orlando would do it. Give them a call. Biyombo got way overpaid but he does all the things Gorgui doesnt.

Doesn't anyone really believe this organization can squeeze out every bit of talent a player has in the same way the Spurs always do?

thedoper wrote:

KiwiMatt wrote:Gorgui Dieng, Cole Aldrich (and Jamal Crawford if opts in and can be traded) to Orlando for Bismack Biyombo and Jonathan Simmons.

Why for Orlando? Shed Bismarck's contract and gain cap relief with Cole Aldrich's expiring contract (or can be bought out for 1 mil I think). Dieng has an extra year on his contract but is 4 mil cheaper per.

Why for Minnesota? Simmons give us a legit 3rd wing who can slot in to starting lineup if required. Reasonable contract too. Bismack gives us shot blocking and defensive rebounding and can play next to KAT and Belly. His contract is a burden but expires a year earlier than Diengs. Problem is it will make it incredibly difficult to resign KAT and Butler without going into the lux, but this the price Glen has to pay if he wants to be a serious contender.

We could use MLE to resign Belly and still have our 1st rounder to pick a prospect.

Teague / Jones / Not Derrick Rose
Butler / Simmons / 3 Pt Shooter
Wiggins / MGH / Brown
Gibson / Belly / Johnson
KAT / Biyombo / Patton

I really like this deal but don't think that Orlando would do it. Give them a call. Biyombo got way overpaid but he does all the things Gorgui doesnt.

I'd be willing to throw in this year 2nd round pick, but not our 1st (unless we got their 41st pick and a future 2nd round pick).

Magic need to blow things up and build around Jonathan Isaac. They also have a potential top 3 pick in this years draft.

PorkChop wrote:Doesn't anyone really believe this organization can squeeze out every bit of talent a player has in the same way the Spurs always do?

It's pretty tough to reach the Spurs level people forget they have been doing it for so long. I'd settle for a team like the Raptors who have brought in some nice solid talent and has one of the deepest teams in the league. We are getting something out of Belly and Tyus.

KiwiMatt wrote:Gorgui Dieng, Cole Aldrich (and Jamal Crawford if opts in and can be traded) to Orlando for Bismack Biyombo and Jonathan Simmons.

Why for Orlando? Shed Bismarck's contract and gain cap relief with Cole Aldrich's expiring contract (or can be bought out for 1 mil I think). Dieng has an extra year on his contract but is 4 mil cheaper per.

Why for Minnesota? Simmons give us a legit 3rd wing who can slot in to starting lineup if required. Reasonable contract too. Bismack gives us shot blocking and defensive rebounding and can play next to KAT and Belly. His contract is a burden but expires a year earlier than Diengs. Problem is it will make it incredibly difficult to resign KAT and Butler without going into the lux, but this the price Glen has to pay if he wants to be a serious contender.

We could use MLE to resign Belly and still have our 1st rounder to pick a prospect.

Teague / Jones / Not Derrick Rose
Butler / Simmons / 3 Pt Shooter
Wiggins / MGH / Brown
Gibson / Belly / Johnson
KAT / Biyombo / Patton

Not a bad idea, Matt. Jonathan Simmons would give us a bona fide two-way wing off the bench with a great team-friendly contract. But I'm not crazy about carrying Biyombo's contract for 2 seasons. Yes, he'd upgrade our rim protection. But he's a huge liability on the offensive end. He has no shooting range and is a terrible free-throw shooter. At least Gorgui can contribute on the offensive end. He has a very nice mid-range shot, can hit some corner threes and is a very good passer. His rebounding is as good as Biyombo's. And he costs $3 million a year less, which might be the difference between luxury tax or no luxury tax. And as much as I like Simmons, he doesn't improve our 3-point shooting. Unfortunately, I don't have any better trade deals in mind than the one you've come up with here.

Here's a thought. How about Wiggins and our OKC pick to Atlanta for Bazemore and their 2018 first round pick, which will likely be a top 5? Maybe Atlanta would see Wiggins as a way to jump-start their rebuild. They would also have 2018 first round picks from the Rockets, Wolves and Thunder (via Wolves). They already have two really nice young pieces in Prince at SF and Schroder at PG. This sort of deal wouldn't happen until draft day. And I'm assuming most on the Board would say that the Hawks would never consider the deal.

I just don't see getting anything of value in exchange for Gorgui. The point of trading Gorgui is to unload his contract, which exceeds his value as a player and threatens to put the Wolves over the luxury tax threshold in conjunction with other the team's other contracts. But I can't see how we'd end up getting a significantly better contract or a better player for the same money in return. Likewise, I don't see any way we could get a good return for Teague. So any truly meaningful deal that significantly improves the team will have to involve either our OKC pick or Wiggins (or both).

So my thinking right now is to concentrate on three things for next season: 1) re-signing Belly, (2) drafting a really good prospect with the OKC pick (a la Kuzma, Gorbert,etc.),
and (3) making wise use of our MLE to improve our bench and 3-point shooting. Hopefully, there's a front office out there that loves Gorgui enough to give us a significantly better player for the same money or a much more team-friendly contract, but that seems highly unlikely.

lipoli390 wrote:Here's a thought. How about Wiggins and our OKC pick to Atlanta for Bazemore and their 2018 first round pick, which will likely be a top 5? Maybe Atlanta would see Wiggins as a way to jump-start their rebuild. They would also have 2018 first round picks from the Rockets, Wolves and Thunder (via Wolves). They already have two really nice young pieces in Prince at SF and Schroder at PG. This sort of deal wouldn't happen until draft day. And I'm assuming most on the Board would say that the Hawks would never consider the deal.

I just don't see getting anything of value in exchange for Gorgui. The point of trading Gorgui is to unload his contract, which exceeds his value as a player and threatens to put the Wolves over the luxury tax threshold in conjunction with other the team's other contracts. But I can't see how we'd end up getting a significantly better contract or a better player for the same money in return. Likewise, I don't see any way we could get a good return for Teague. So any truly meaningful deal that significantly improves the team will have to involve either our OKC pick or Wiggins (or both).

So my thinking right now is to concentrate on three things for next season: 1) re-signing Belly, (2) drafting a really good prospect with the OKC pick (a la Kuzma, Gorbert,etc.),
and (3) making wise use of our MLE to improve our bench and 3-point shooting. Hopefully, there's a front office out there that loves Gorgui enough to give us a significantly better player for the same money or a much more team-friendly contract, but that seems highly unlikely.

Atlanta would take that deal in a heartbeat and I don't think we should even consider it. Wiggins has made big strides as a lockdown defender this year so even if his offense doesn't live up to his max, a lockdown defensive pairing of Wiggins and Butler gives us a chance at contending. I think the way we've played without Jimmy is a case to keep Wiggins as well. He's good enough to be a top 2 option and Jimmy misses time every year. Do you think we would be treading water with Towns/Bazemore in Jimmy's absence? I don't. Wiggins will be overpaid for at least part of his deal, but I'd rather overpay him than hope Jimmy/Towns stay healthy with a bunch of role players around them.

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:I was pretty high on WIg early on, but I thought the max deal was a mistake. If a team needed a top scorer, I could see how he might have the value, but as a third option I would prefer a guy like otto porter.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1_select=Andrew+Wiggins&y1=2018&player_id1=wiggian01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Otto+Porter&player_id2_select=Otto+Porter&y2=2018&player_id2=porteot01&idx=players

If I were a GM, I wouldn't touch him even if I needed a top scorer. He simply isn't efficient enough for today's NBA game. But there may be some GMs (including Thibs) that believe he's worth waiting on. He has an elite spin move, euro step, and can get his shot off pretty easily. May be some day he actually starts making more of them (?). But it's just really hard to see when he's struggling this badly as a 4th year player, even if he is still pretty young age-wise.

Wouldn't touch him? Ok. Overpaid with performance so far makes sense but the rhetoric is a bit overblown I'd say. You may have given Robbie Hummel a max deal so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Wouldn't touch him with that contract, correct. And I'm just speaking for myself if I were a GM. I really think I could find much better ways to spend that money, either on a different max player or perhaps a couple of players.

I think you are right that there might be a couple actual GMs out there willing to roll the dice, but I think that list gets smaller and smaller each passing month....

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Here's a thought. How about Wiggins and our OKC pick to Atlanta for Bazemore and their 2018 first round pick, which will likely be a top 5? Maybe Atlanta would see Wiggins as a way to jump-start their rebuild. They would also have 2018 first round picks from the Rockets, Wolves and Thunder (via Wolves). They already have two really nice young pieces in Prince at SF and Schroder at PG. This sort of deal wouldn't happen until draft day. And I'm assuming most on the Board would say that the Hawks would never consider the deal.

I just don't see getting anything of value in exchange for Gorgui. The point of trading Gorgui is to unload his contract, which exceeds his value as a player and threatens to put the Wolves over the luxury tax threshold in conjunction with other the team's other contracts. But I can't see how we'd end up getting a significantly better contract or a better player for the same money in return. Likewise, I don't see any way we could get a good return for Teague. So any truly meaningful deal that significantly improves the team will have to involve either our OKC pick or Wiggins (or both).

So my thinking right now is to concentrate on three things for next season: 1) re-signing Belly, (2) drafting a really good prospect with the OKC pick (a la Kuzma, Gorbert,etc.),
and (3) making wise use of our MLE to improve our bench and 3-point shooting. Hopefully, there's a front office out there that loves Gorgui enough to give us a significantly better player for the same money or a much more team-friendly contract, but that seems highly unlikely.

Atlanta would take that deal in a heartbeat and I don't think we should even consider it. Wiggins has made big strides as a lockdown defender this year so even if his offense doesn't live up to his max, a lockdown defensive pairing of Wiggins and Butler gives us a chance at contending. I think the way we've played without Jimmy is a case to keep Wiggins as well. He's good enough to be a top 2 option and Jimmy misses time every year. Do you think we would be treading water with Towns/Bazemore in Jimmy's absence? I don't. Wiggins will be overpaid for at least part of his deal, but I'd rather overpay him than hope Jimmy/Towns stay healthy with a bunch of role players around them.

I also would not do the trade if I was the Wolves. Way to much risk with the guys at the top of the draft. Ayton sucks at defense, Bamba is a good defensive player but those elite defensive bigs in college scare me and he has a limited offensive game (also we have another young center in Patton). Bagley is a stud but what is he in the NBA, not a great jumper, he reminds me so much of Thomas Robinson (I think he will be better but what is he in the NBA to small to be a Center and not a good enough shot to be a PF). Sexton might be good but probably doesn't contribute early in his career. Trae Young is similar to Sexton. Porter is Wiggins light, not as good of an athlete, not a good jumper, weak handle and coming off of back surgery. Jackson is an interesting pick next to Towns but I don't see star potential.

I love Doncic but what are the odds he ends up worse than Wiggins and good as Wiggins or better than Wiggins. Big question marks, I love him but still a gamble.

There is no for sure thing in this years draft in my opinion and it is not worth the risk of having a "down" year next year if the players can't come and contribute. Wiggins is averaging 21/4/3 on 48% shooting 35% from 3 in games Butler has missed, it is not like he is a finished product and I would rather trade wiggins if we have to for a player who is established instead of another gamble.

MIN: Kemba Walker (from CHA), Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (from CHA), Marvin Williams (from CHA), and Wesley Matthews (from DAL)

CHA: Jeff Teague (from MIN) and Andrew Wiggins (from MIN)

DAL: Gorgui Dieng (from MIN), Cole Aldrich (from MIN), 2018 1st-round pick (from MIN via UTA via OKC)

This is a team-changer, alright... We shed one really bad deal, one expiring contract, one 23-year old high risk/high-reward wing, one overpaid-but-above average point guard, and a low first-round pick for a second-tier (almost elite) point guard in the midst of his prime, a 24-year old defensive-minded wing with a somewhat reasonable contract, a stretch-four on a so-so deal, and a 3/D wing on an expiring contract.

It's a lot of moving parts so it's probably unlikely and unrealistic, and we put even more of our eggs in the win-now basket, but I don't think it's a bad idea. Financially, it's close to a wash for now. We'll still have luxury tax issues and we'll still need to focus on re-signing Walker -- as well as Butler and Towns -- in this hypothetical, but I think it makes us more of a serious contender. It improves our top-end talent. We get depth at multiple positions. We also add some much-needed (desperately-needed) three-point shooting -- six rotation players shooting better than 35% from deep with solid volume -- to the roster while arguably getting better defensively. We pay the price, but overall, we get better.

PG: Walker / Jones
SG: Butler / Matthews
SF: *Bjelica / Kidd-Gilchrist
PF: Gibson / Williams
C: Towns / Patton

* denotes a free agent.