Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:The counter argument to your stats Kahns is Richardson plays a more premium position in the league right now and is a two way player.

With the way the league is going especially in playoff series is small, as I'm sure you know and understand. Not sure where Saric fits in with where the league is at right now.

I don't think you really understand how Saric plays based on your posts. You're questioning his fit in this league when he is as modern a 4 as it gets. He switches on defense. He played next to two elite rebounders in Simmons and Embiid so who knows what he can actually do now with more opportunity. He's posted defensive win shares similar to Taj over Taj's career. He's Taj statistically with a 3pt shot. I don't really understand why you think he doesn't fit in this league. He's exactly a fit for this league.

Kahns - I share Duke's view on Saric. But I respect your basketball acumen as well as Cam's and both of you are high on Saric. So you two have me more intrigued with acquisition of Saric than I would have otherwise been. I hope you both turn out to be right about him as a talent and as a fit for this team going forward. But I still worry that, even if you and Cam are completely right about Saric, that he won't be here long given the fact that he's nearing the end of his contract.

Lip I felt that way to some extent about Saric's contract also a few weeks ago. Still he is signed for a minimum of this year and next year and for basically peanuts which is key compared to other options. Reports are that the Sixers weren't sure they wanted to pay the 16-20 million it would cost to keep him. I'm not sure if that's from actual sources or just sorta common sense type stuff and I would lean more towards the later but anyway. Saric will be a RFA at the end of his contract and that will still help us keep him and at what is likely a lower number. There is also the option of doing a rookie extension this coming offseason where you can sometimes get a guy for a nice salary (for both sides) but not a boatload they might get. Sometimes uachbside can give up a bit for some uncertainty. There is uncertainty about FA going forward. Who gets paid going forward and I'm not just talking Wolves I'm talking about the league in general so that could help us get something that makes sense done with Saric if he looks like a piece going forward. We basically have Saric for 2 years that's long enough for me at this point.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:The counter argument to your stats Kahns is Richardson plays a more premium position in the league right now and is a two way player.

With the way the league is going especially in playoff series is small, as I'm sure you know and understand. Not sure where Saric fits in with where the league is at right now.

I don't think you really understand how Saric plays based on your posts. You're questioning his fit in this league when he is as modern a 4 as it gets. He switches on defense. He played next to two elite rebounders in Simmons and Embiid so who knows what he can actually do now with more opportunity. He's posted defensive win shares similar to Taj over Taj's career. He's Taj statistically with a 3pt shot. I don't really understand why you think he doesn't fit in this league. He's exactly a fit for this league.

Kahns - I share Duke's view on Saric. But I respect your basketball acumen as well as Cam's and both of you are high on Saric. So you two have me more intrigued with acquisition of Saric than I would have otherwise been. I hope you both turn out to be right about him as a talent and as a fit for this team going forward. But I still worry that, even if you and Cam are completely right about Saric, that he won't be here long given the fact that he's nearing the end of his contract.

Lip I felt that way to some extent about Saric's contract also a few weeks ago. Still he is signed for a minimum of this year and next year and for basically peanuts which is key compared to other options. Reports are that the Sixers weren't sure they wanted to pay the 16-20 million it would cost to keep him. I'm not sure if that's from actual sources or just sorta common sense type stuff and I would lean more towards the later but anyway. Saric will be a RFA at the end of his contract and that will still help us keep him and at what is likely a lower number. There is also the option of doing a rookie extension this coming offseason where you can sometimes get a guy for a nice salary (for both sides) but not a boatload they might get. Sometimes uachbside can give up a bit for some uncertainty. There is uncertainty about FA going forward. Who gets paid going forward and I'm not just talking Wolves I'm talking about the league in general so that could help us get something that makes sense done with Saric if he looks like a piece going forward. We basically have Saric for 2 years that's long enough for me at this point.

Any usable cap space we have for the near future is opening up this summer with Taj and likely Teague leaving. After that it's not really gonna matter for Saric's number because we'll be capped out.

I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

They should be calling Orlando to see their interest in Teague. This is the problem having a POBO without the best interest of the team.

worldK wrote:I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

Let me pose a few questions. I love the discussion cause you guys are getting more excited than i was. Where does this lead to us realistically record wise? Is it not the worse place to be sitting at the end of lottery? I feel we would been better off punting the season to get a high pick like barrett or willamson. (Taking houston deal) This deal is counter productive as it will lead us to getting from the front of the lottery to the back. Add in the fact of getting to supplement 4 of our next drafts with 1st rounders i dont get why we do this. I just feel this is us appeasing thibs rather than looking at the bigger picture.

kekgeek1 wrote:

worldK wrote:I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

You also have to factor in situation. This year was/is a shitshow. He's been hurt. The cumulative money he makes on his next deal is gonna be worth more than 19 million and he can go to a better situation with multiple teams needing PG's this summer and cap space available everywhere due to cap spike year deals starting to expire. 3/36 or 3/45 in a better sitution is gonna be a no brainer for him. The only way he stays here is if we make the playoffs and that's a big if at this point. He's as good as gone if we miss the playoffs.

Wolfson reported in his podcast that at one point the Wizards did offer Otto Porter for Butler. The Wolves countered with asking for Beal. I'm happy getting Covington for 15 million less per season and locked in longer and getting Saric.

crazysauce wrote:Let me pose a few questions. I love the discussion cause you guys are getting more excited than i was. Where does this lead to us realistically record wise? Is it not the worse place to be sitting at the end of lottery? I feel we would been better off punting the season to get a high pick like barrett or willamson. (Taking houston deal) This deal is counter productive as it will lead us to getting from the front of the lottery to the back. Add in the fact of getting to supplement 4 of our next drafts with 1st rounders i dont get why we do this. I just feel this is us appeasing thibs rather than looking at the bigger picture.

A top pick this year while nice in theory doesn't fit this team's timeline not to mention we just don't have the lack of talent that can truly tank for a top pick with the likes of the bottom feeders in this league. We're on second contracts now for our top young guys. Imagine the optics of trading Jimmy and then being a bottom 5 team in the league. That would be unrecoverable for Wiggins and Towns reputation. A draft pick might be productive from day one. Or it could take a few years like it does for most. We don't have a few years any more to wait. We have 3 years after this one to build a contender. Not just scrape into the playoffs. An actual contender or Towns is gone. A rookie doesn't fit that timeline and tanking will just continue the loser mentality that we will never break if we keep losing for the sake of another "savior". It's on Towns and Wiggins at this point same as it was on Ricky and Love during the last rebuild that failed when we brought in the Kevin Martin's and AK47's of the world. They'll either rise to the occasion or they won't, but it's on them. They have all the tools to do it. Time to stop looking for other guys to be the answer. They're surrounded by players who have been on successfully playoff teams in the past who can play that role well enough to get there if the top guys do their jobs.

khans2k5 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

worldK wrote:I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

You also have to factor in situation. This year was/is a shitshow. He's been hurt. The cumulative money he makes on his next deal is gonna be worth more than 19 million and he can go to a better situation with multiple teams needing PG's this summer and cap space available everywhere due to cap spike year deals starting to expire. 3/36 or 3/45 in a better sitution is gonna be a no brainer for him. The only way he stays here is if we make the playoffs and that's a big if at this point. He's as good as gone if we miss the playoffs.

It still dont make sense for teague to opt out. Can you name a team that is going to pay teague the 3/36 or 3/45 that you are throwing out? Have you factor the way the league is going? Teams are throwing out 1 year deals to have cap flexibility year after year. Teague is not a needle mover that you are going to invest 3/36 or 3/45 in. He is a guy you give a 1 yr deal to even at a his salary because he is not viewed as a long term answer at pg for any team. Only way for teague to secure a 3 year deal from any team is if he agrees to a 5-7m deal a year. The team that offer him that will use him as a placeholder while they develop their pg of the future or as a bench guy. That is the reality of teagues situation. He can sign that deal after he take his 19m guaranteed money next season.