Minnesota Sports Forum

kekgeek1 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:That's the type of free agent teams get burned in. Guys plays well for a month at the right time. Very small sample size of good play. With that said, he's played great and would look nice next to KAT. Still don't know if he's a starter tho. Lots of unknowns. I agree with the assessment he will get closer to 20 than 10.

Agree 100% he has been great all year but it will be very hard for him to live up to the money. He is in my good player but stay away because he won't live up to it with Barnes

I'd be much more comfortable paying Biyombo and expecting a return than I would with Barnes. Compared to Barnes who may come here looking to assert himself as more than a 3rd-4th option on offense as he was in GS, Biyombo would be in a similar situation as he is in Toronto. Surrounded by scorers, left to play his game. I also have never seen a stretch of play from Barnes like we are seeing with Biyombo right now. He's stepped up on the biggest stage and is the biggest reason Toronto is competing with the Cavs, going against those expectations that his offensive liabilities would relegate him to the bench in the playoffs. Biyombo has also progressed in every season of his career thus far, and at 23 he still has plenty of room to grow. He ranked ninth in the league in defensive plus-minus this season. Since 2013, Biyombo has maintained a pace of 9 pts, 12 rebounds, and 3 blocks per 36 minutes. Yes, he is a liability on offense (though his ORTG is surprisingly at 115,115, and 118 the last 3 seasons), as he is only an option on putbacks and resetting an offensive possession with rebounds, but that in itself is huge. Now, continued improvement/consistency from 3pt range for Zach, Wiggins, and Towns would be needed to keep appropriate spacing while Biyombo is on the floor, but i'd say it's fair to say that we should expect those improvements this upcoming season. Biyombo, who can switch on any player, and KAT are also athletic enough where we could keep a big lineup while others go small ball. KAT would cover the 5 and Biyombo the 4. I would also appreciate the level of intensity and toughness Biyombo will add to this young team right away, and continue to after KG retires next season. A rotation of minutes for our bigs - 32/Towns, 24/Biyombo, 24/Dieng, 16 KG would be very nice. Expect Bjelica to play sparingly when we need more spacing on the court, and when KG has his rest days.

If he is available to sign anywhere near 4/48-56 then I would jump on it. I think you guys are a bit over the top saying he'll get closer to 20mil a year. He got $3mil a year last offseason, I doubt he sees a $17mil raise due to his play this season. A $7mil-$10mil increase is a bit more realistic.Teams know what he adds and that he is bad for spacing on offense in a league moving towards spacing at all costs. He will have suitors lining up, but I doubt it's as many as everyone is currently saying. I will say Cuban is the one to watch out for. That being said, Biyombo fills 2 big needs for us, improved rebounding and defense, with room to grow at both. Our focus would turn to backup PG and 3pt shooting at the wing positions for the other parts of the offseason. Assuming we stay at #5 and draft Dunn, he will cost us $4mil per year. Add that to let's say $13mil for Biyombo, and we still will have roughly $13mil to spend on another good player or two. I've seen Bazemore mentioned here multiple times at 3/39mil or 4/48 and that has been widely accepted, so we will slot him into our lineup as well (even though I think he's more risky than Biyombo when you look at the advanced numbers, I may prefer Courtney Lee to Bazemore).

How could you not get excited by the present and future of this lineup:

Rubio / Dunn / Jones
LaVine / Bazemore
Wiggins / Shabazz
Biyombo / KG / Bjelica / Payne
KAT / Dieng / Pekovic

With Pekovic, KG, and Payne coming off the books in the next 2 years, and a continued rise in cap space, we would remain in a fine position to keep our homegrown talent as well. I'd prefer this roster build to one comprised of Horford or Deng and Noah/Gasol

You don't think Biyombo will get paid above 15 Million? Fox article thinks he will get paid very well.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/bismack-biyombo-max-contact-man-handling-playoffs-rebounds-block-lebron-james-kevin-love-052416 They said " it could be argued that $20 million a year is below market value for an elite young rebounder and with more than capable rim protection skills."

I'm sticking with my 17 to 20 Mill forecast. Remember how crazy we thought last year was. With the actual cap increase across the board, it will be crazier this year. I expect a bidding war for Biyombo.

Duke13 wrote:That's the type of free agent teams get burned in. Guys plays well for a month at the right time. Very small sample size of good play. With that said, he's played great and would look nice next to KAT. Still don't know if he's a starter tho. Lots of unknowns. I agree with the assessment he will get closer to 20 than 10.

Looking at some of the names mentioned on this and the other thread, I am actually excited that someone is mentioning someone who has played WELL for ONE MONTH.

Biyombo was a bargain FA last offseason and he and his agent likely signed a cheaper deal with an out after 1 year hoping he would play himself into a better contract in a year where the cap explodes. He was probably looking at making 7million or more BEFORE he exploded in the playoffs. Koufus and Ed Davis signed bargain multi year deals for around 7 million per last offseason. Dude is 23 always had some legit production and has 2 seasons of putting up solid advanced numbers on the defensive end. Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan have similar skill sets and those guys are getting paid a ton of money. Biyombo is gonna get $$$$$$$.

Haha. Good point Jason!

Let me put this in perspective for you guys:

Valanciunas has a +5.1 PER split and is making $14.3m next year. (Oh course, if he is still with the woman he was with on draft night, he's richer than Warren Buffet, but still)
Biyombo has a -.9 PER split, but he should get.....$20m?

He's average. YOU CAN'T PAY 22% OF YOUR CAP FOR AVERAGE AND BECOME A GOOD TEAM! This isn't that tough.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Let me put this in perspective for you guys:

Valanciunas has a +5.1 PER split and is making $14.3m next year. (Oh course, if he is still with the woman he was with on draft night, he's richer than Warren Buffet, but still)
Biyombo has a -.9 PER split, but he should get.....$20m?

He's average. YOU CAN'T PAY 22% OF YOUR CAP FOR AVERAGE AND BECOME A GOOD TEAM! This isn't that tough.

What is his split in these playoffs? I agree, this closer to 20 million per year talk is a bit out there. These owners will have extra millions to play with, but that doesn't mean they will act like they won the lottery. Of course the very top FA's like Durant, Derozan, Whiteside, Conley, Horford, Howard, etc. will be heavily contested for, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will believe they can overcome the warriors, cavs, raptors, and current okc/spurs squads by paying good players 4/5 of max money. Many teams could stay near the salary floor easily by making minor to medium type moves, keep the general fan happy/interested, and make a mint.

I would like to see Biyombo signed for anything under $14mil a year. Over that, I would pass.

TheFuture wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Let me put this in perspective for you guys:

Valanciunas has a +5.1 PER split and is making $14.3m next year. (Oh course, if he is still with the woman he was with on draft night, he's richer than Warren Buffet, but still)
Biyombo has a -.9 PER split, but he should get.....$20m?

He's average. YOU CAN'T PAY 22% OF YOUR CAP FOR AVERAGE AND BECOME A GOOD TEAM! This isn't that tough.

What is his split in these playoffs? I agree, this closer to 20 million per year talk is a bit out there. These owners will have extra millions to play with, but that doesn't mean they will act like they won the lottery. Of course the very top FA's like Durant, Derozan, Whiteside, Conley, Horford, Howard, etc. will be heavily contested for, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will believe they can overcome the warriors, cavs, raptors, and current okc/spurs squads by paying good players 4/5 of max money. Many teams could stay near the salary floor easily by making minor to medium type moves, keep the general fan happy/interested, and make a mint.

I would like to see Biyombo signed for anything under $14mil a year. Over that, I would pass.

I don't understand your point. So the Wolves should overpay guys.....so you feel like they are accomplishing something?

And the point Duke made is absolutely correct: You can't pay for a month. And I would also like to say: Everybody is talking about the last two games. I don't remember any talk the first two series. Just calm down. You can't win a championship if Biyombo is your starting center.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Let me put this in perspective for you guys:

Valanciunas has a +5.1 PER split and is making $14.3m next year. (Oh course, if he is still with the woman he was with on draft night, he's richer than Warren Buffet, but still)
Biyombo has a -.9 PER split, but he should get.....$20m?

He's average. YOU CAN'T PAY 22% OF YOUR CAP FOR AVERAGE AND BECOME A GOOD TEAM! This isn't that tough.

What is his split in these playoffs? I agree, this closer to 20 million per year talk is a bit out there. These owners will have extra millions to play with, but that doesn't mean they will act like they won the lottery. Of course the very top FA's like Durant, Derozan, Whiteside, Conley, Horford, Howard, etc. will be heavily contested for, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will believe they can overcome the warriors, cavs, raptors, and current okc/spurs squads by paying good players 4/5 of max money. Many teams could stay near the salary floor easily by making minor to medium type moves, keep the general fan happy/interested, and make a mint.

I would like to see Biyombo signed for anything under $14mil a year. Over that, I would pass.

I don't understand your point. So the Wolves should overpay guys.....so you feel like they are accomplishing something?

And the point Duke made is absolutely correct: You can't pay for a month. And I would also like to say: Everybody is talking about the last two games. I don't remember any talk the first two series. Just calm down. You can't win a championship if Biyombo is your starting center.

We are taking a couple different points here when it comes to Biyombo.

1. What we might pay for him and how we see his value to this team. I'm not sure what I would pay for him for the Wolves but I'm sure he will get more than I would be willing to pay and I do think he may be somewhat legit.

2. What he is going to get on the open market. No I don't think he gets 20 million but it's gonna be in the teens. That's gonna be a lot of money.

Realize there are 2 separate conversations going on here.

As for him not being able to be a championship center well he is one of the reasons the Raptors have a shot at winning a series against a really good Cavs team. Is it his fault he has had a really good C in front of him most of the season? That should be part of the equation. There is some risk he isn't all that great but I do think there is some legit chance that a team set up the right way just lets the guy loose does what he does well and doesn't care if he can score or not which he won't. Lol

monsterpile wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Let me put this in perspective for you guys:

Valanciunas has a +5.1 PER split and is making $14.3m next year. (Oh course, if he is still with the woman he was with on draft night, he's richer than Warren Buffet, but still)
Biyombo has a -.9 PER split, but he should get.....$20m?

He's average. YOU CAN'T PAY 22% OF YOUR CAP FOR AVERAGE AND BECOME A GOOD TEAM! This isn't that tough.

What is his split in these playoffs? I agree, this closer to 20 million per year talk is a bit out there. These owners will have extra millions to play with, but that doesn't mean they will act like they won the lottery. Of course the very top FA's like Durant, Derozan, Whiteside, Conley, Horford, Howard, etc. will be heavily contested for, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will believe they can overcome the warriors, cavs, raptors, and current okc/spurs squads by paying good players 4/5 of max money. Many teams could stay near the salary floor easily by making minor to medium type moves, keep the general fan happy/interested, and make a mint.

I would like to see Biyombo signed for anything under $14mil a year. Over that, I would pass.

I don't understand your point. So the Wolves should overpay guys.....so you feel like they are accomplishing something?

And the point Duke made is absolutely correct: You can't pay for a month. And I would also like to say: Everybody is talking about the last two games. I don't remember any talk the first two series. Just calm down. You can't win a championship if Biyombo is your starting center.

We are taking a couple different points here when it comes to Biyombo.

1. What we might pay for him and how we see his value to this team. I'm not sure what I would pay for him for the Wolves but I'm sure he will get more than I would be willing to pay and I do think he may be somewhat legit.

2. What he is going to get on the open market. No I don't think he gets 20 million but it's gonna be in the teens. That's gonna be a lot of money.

Realize there are 2 separate conversations going on here.

As for him not being able to be a championship center well he is one of the reasons the Raptors have a shot at winning a series against a really good Cavs team. Is it his fault he has had a really good C in front of him most of the season? That should be part of the equation. There is some risk he isn't all that great but I do think there is some legit chance that a team set up the right way just lets the guy loose does what he does well and doesn't care if he can score or not which he won't. Lol

Maybe it should be the same conversation.

Look, he's not great. $20m is still a lot of money. A last but not least, the Wolves are not a high revenue team. Their tickets aren't expensive, they don't sell a lot of them, their games late in the year get infomercial-level ratings, and the mall is filled with guys in Peterson Jerseys, Mauer Jerseys, and Parise Jerseys, but no Wolves. Meanwhile, The Raptors are owned by the same group that owns the Maple Laughs, so they print money. If the guy is worth it, TOR has the rules AND the revenue in their favor.

Maybe someday. The Mild are about to enter a deep swoon created by overpaying guys (irony alert), while the Wolves have some great players who are still priced right. Sign THE RIGHT GUYS, or wait. Don't go back into Hudson/Blount/Jaric salary cap hell.