Jimmy Butler traded to Philly

[Crazysauce]

But isnt our timeline 4 to 5 years since that what towns and wiggins are signed for? I get we dont want to keep losing but i feel like you need to be realistic with where we are at. If you cant compete you accumulate assets like boston did. Thats haw you build a franchise. And these young guys can grow fast as witnessed by Boston as well. Iam a believer in the process and feel we just dont have any direction.

[Monster]

Let me pose a few questions. I love the discussion cause you guys are getting more excited than i was. Where does this lead to us realistically record wise? Is it not the worse place to be sitting at the end of lottery? I feel we would been better off punting the season to get a high pick like barrett or willamson. (Taking houston deal) This deal is counter productive as it will lead us to getting from the front of the lottery to the back. Add in the fact of getting to supplement 4 of our next drafts with 1st rounders i dont get why we do this. I just feel this is us appeasing thibs rather than looking at the bigger picture.

A top pick this year while nice in theory doesn't fit this team's timeline not to mention we just don't have the lack of talent that can truly tank for a top pick with the likes of the bottom feeders in this league. We're on second contracts now for our top young guys. Imagine the optics of trading Jimmy and then being a bottom 5 team in the league. That would be unrecoverable for Wiggins and Towns reputation. A draft pick might be productive from day one. Or it could take a few years like it does for most. We don't have a few years any more to wait. We have 3 years after this one to build a contender. Not just scrape into the playoffs. An actual contender or Towns is gone. A rookie doesn't fit that timeline and tanking will just continue the loser mentality that we will never break if we keep losing for the sake of another "savior". It's on Towns and Wiggins at this point same as it was on Ricky and Love during the last rebuild that failed when we brought in the Kevin Martin's and AK47's of the world. They'll either rise to the occasion or they won't, but it's on them. They have all the tools to do it. Time to stop looking for other guys to be the answer. They're surrounded by players who have been on successfully playoff teams in the past who can play that role well enough to get there if the top guys do their jobs.

First of all I'll mention that Wolfson reported that all the NBA front office people he contacted said that the Wolves should have turned down the Houston deal. Even if you are ok with the idea of tanking for a top pick Brandon Knight's contract is bad enough that a team would probably want 2 first round picks to take it on. On top of that the Rockets picks could end up being in the 20's. Yes you can pick good players there but...the wolves have their own picks why not draft a good player with your own pick?

So let's look at money going forward if we go with the best case scenario of your plan compared to the reality. Covington makes 10-12 million the next 4 years for a top defending wing player that can hit 3's. Saric will be making 2-3 million the next 2 years. Then after that Saric will need to get paid? How much? Let's say 18 million. That sounds like quite a bit right? If the Wolves ranked and got the #1 overall pick that guy is gonna be making almost 10 million a year right away and we are playing Brandon Knight 15 million next season. Now obviously if the guy we pick is good it's a bargain who cares how much you are paying him etc. what if you pick a Markel Fultz? Would you rather pay a guy like Covington you know will be pretty good and even Saric or hope you get a top pick that's good?

How good can this team be the way it's constructed now? There are a lot of questions to be answered. Right now this team has a legit starting lineup with some legit NBA rotation players on the bench. Who saw the Jazz making their run last year? Maybe we suck and get a pretty high pick anyway. There are some legit pieces here. Let's see what they can do. Covington is the best Wing we have had on this roster other than Butler since maybe Ak-47's 58 games or whatever it was. Just having him is gonna be a big help.

[Monster]

But isnt our timeline 4 to 5 years since that what towns and wiggins are signed for? I get we dont want to keep losing but i feel like you need to be realistic with where we are at. If you cant compete you accumulate assets like boston did. Thats haw you build a franchise. And these young guys can grow fast as witnessed by Boston as well. Iam a believer in the process and feel we just dont have any direction.

Those guys could ask out before that timeline is over. Covington and Saric are assets also. If you wanted to trade Covington right now for a 1st round pick you would have over half the team in the league calling. I'd guess you could get at least a 1st and a 2nd round pick for him.

[TheGrey08]

I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.

Thibs should have been fired a long time ago based soley on his coaching or solely on his peformance as PBO after he totally botched the Butler situation by ignoring the early warnings and allowing it to explode.

Lip, keep in mind that Woj is getting his info from Miami's side and he is going to spin it their way. I have zero problem with the wolves waiting this last couple of weeks, and as I said earlier I still think the deal we got is every bit as good as anything offered that we know about. Woj even stated that Philly wasn't offering up Saric and Covington both before. Of course he also said Brand initially resisted, so which is it. Woj contradicts himself repeatedly.

I would have been much happier with a first rounder in this millenium, and I don't know that Covington fits offensively with Wig. I also question Saric defensively with KAT, but we can't have everything.

Yeah, I take Woj with a massive grain of salt. His breaking news is usually spot on, but the whole insider deal... If I remember correctly he was one of the ones who kept talking the narrative that Rubio did not want to come to Minnesota from Europe and wanted to be traded to New York. There was even talk that Rubio would not play for the Wolves. They were all dead wrong about that too.

[Crazysauce]

Isnt knight only signed for this and next year? If would likely be a 2 year plan anyways. Tank, get zion and your 4 1sts. By next year knight is an expiring which becomes a valuable trade chip all of a sudden. Either let him expire to make a big signing in 2020 or deal him for something good for his expiring. By then hopefully gs dynasty is over. Stars win in this league. Teams with covingtons and sarics of the world end up at end of lottery or sneak into playoffs. Think we have had our fill of teams filled with role players. Last time we had 3 legitimate stars was casell sprewell and garnett.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

You also have to factor in situation. This year was/is a shitshow. He's been hurt. The cumulative money he makes on his next deal is gonna be worth more than 19 million and he can go to a better situation with multiple teams needing PG's this summer and cap space available everywhere due to cap spike year deals starting to expire. 3/36 or 3/45 in a better sitution is gonna be a no brainer for him. The only way he stays here is if we make the playoffs and that's a big if at this point. He's as good as gone if we miss the playoffs.

It still dont make sense for teague to opt out. Can you name a team that is going to pay teague the 3/36 or 3/45 that you are throwing out? Have you factor the way the league is going? Teams are throwing out 1 year deals to have cap flexibility year after year. Teague is not a needle mover that you are going to invest 3/36 or 3/45 in. He is a guy you give a 1 yr deal to even at a his salary because he is not viewed as a long term answer at pg for any team. Only way for teague to secure a 3 year deal from any team is if he agrees to a 5-7m deal a year. The team that offer him that will use him as a placeholder while they develop their pg of the future or as a bench guy. That is the reality of teagues situation. He can sign that deal after he take his 19m guaranteed money next season.

I think you have just wildly miscalculated his value in this league. There's a ton of cap space available this summer and the number of stars who are likely gonna be available is getting smaller after every star trade. Why wouldn't teams like the Magic or Suns sign a solid veteran PG to put around their young guys for multiple years while they try to find a solution via the draft? The cap and salaries are going up, not down. You're range of what he will make on the market is backup PG money. He's still a starting caliber PG. That alone is worth more than 10 million a year and likely in the 12-15 range. You're also still assuming he only cares about money. A lot of guys at his point in their careers care more about long-term money on good teams than short term cash grabs. This might be his last multi-year contract before he has to do one year deals. It only takes one offer to get that.

[Lipoli390]

Wolfson reported in his podcast that at one point the Wizards did offer Otto Porter for Butler. The Wolves countered with asking for Beal. I'm happy getting Covington for 15 million less per season and locked in longer and getting Saric.

I'd rather have Covington and Saric than just Porter. Beal would have been a great acquisition for Butler.

[worldK]

I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

You also have to factor in situation. This year was/is a shitshow. He's been hurt. The cumulative money he makes on his next deal is gonna be worth more than 19 million and he can go to a better situation with multiple teams needing PG's this summer and cap space available everywhere due to cap spike year deals starting to expire. 3/36 or 3/45 in a better sitution is gonna be a no brainer for him. The only way he stays here is if we make the playoffs and that's a big if at this point. He's as good as gone if we miss the playoffs.

It still dont make sense for teague to opt out. Can you name a team that is going to pay teague the 3/36 or 3/45 that you are throwing out? Have you factor the way the league is going? Teams are throwing out 1 year deals to have cap flexibility year after year. Teague is not a needle mover that you are going to invest 3/36 or 3/45 in. He is a guy you give a 1 yr deal to even at a his salary because he is not viewed as a long term answer at pg for any team. Only way for teague to secure a 3 year deal from any team is if he agrees to a 5-7m deal a year. The team that offer him that will use him as a placeholder while they develop their pg of the future or as a bench guy. That is the reality of teagues situation. He can sign that deal after he take his 19m guaranteed money next season.

I think you have just wildly miscalculated his value in this league. There's a ton of cap space available this summer and the number of stars who are likely gonna be available is getting smaller after every star trade. Why wouldn't teams like the Magic or Suns sign a solid veteran PG to put around their young guys for multiple years while they try to find a solution via the draft? The cap and salaries are going up, not down. You're range of what he will make on the market is backup PG money. He's still a starting caliber PG. That alone is worth more than 10 million a year and likely in the 12-15 range. You're also still assuming he only cares about money. A lot of guys at his point in their careers care more about long-term money on good teams than short term cash grabs. This might be his last multi-year contract before he has to do one year deals. It only takes one offer to get that.

Are you saying that if your the suns, you are willing to give teague a 3yr/36-3yr/45m deal that you are saying? This is the suns who signed 1 year deal for ariza and just buyout chandler. We keep talking about the suns here because they and the magic are the only two teams that are really in need of a starting caliber pg. What Im saying is tat with the way the league and contracts are going, Teague best offer if he opts out is a yr deal at ariza level money. He aint going to get a 3 yr deal for more than 10m a year. Teams are always looking to have cap space every year so those 1 year deals are what 30 yr old vets are getting nowadays.

You also have to opt out first of a guaranteed 19m before you can negotiate for another deal. Teague isn't a guy that a team will be hoping that will opt out so they can throw big money and years on. It will be unwise for teague to do that. I dont dislike teague, but it is the reality of the situation.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

You also have to factor in situation. This year was/is a shitshow. He's been hurt. The cumulative money he makes on his next deal is gonna be worth more than 19 million and he can go to a better situation with multiple teams needing PG's this summer and cap space available everywhere due to cap spike year deals starting to expire. 3/36 or 3/45 in a better sitution is gonna be a no brainer for him. The only way he stays here is if we make the playoffs and that's a big if at this point. He's as good as gone if we miss the playoffs.

It still dont make sense for teague to opt out. Can you name a team that is going to pay teague the 3/36 or 3/45 that you are throwing out? Have you factor the way the league is going? Teams are throwing out 1 year deals to have cap flexibility year after year. Teague is not a needle mover that you are going to invest 3/36 or 3/45 in. He is a guy you give a 1 yr deal to even at a his salary because he is not viewed as a long term answer at pg for any team. Only way for teague to secure a 3 year deal from any team is if he agrees to a 5-7m deal a year. The team that offer him that will use him as a placeholder while they develop their pg of the future or as a bench guy. That is the reality of teagues situation. He can sign that deal after he take his 19m guaranteed money next season.

I think you have just wildly miscalculated his value in this league. There's a ton of cap space available this summer and the number of stars who are likely gonna be available is getting smaller after every star trade. Why wouldn't teams like the Magic or Suns sign a solid veteran PG to put around their young guys for multiple years while they try to find a solution via the draft? The cap and salaries are going up, not down. You're range of what he will make on the market is backup PG money. He's still a starting caliber PG. That alone is worth more than 10 million a year and likely in the 12-15 range. You're also still assuming he only cares about money. A lot of guys at his point in their careers care more about long-term money on good teams than short term cash grabs. This might be his last multi-year contract before he has to do one year deals. It only takes one offer to get that.

Are you saying that if your the suns, you are willing to give teague a 3yr/36-3yr/45m deal that you are saying? This is the suns who signed 1 year deal for ariza and just buyout chandler. We keep talking about the suns here because they and the magic are the only two teams that are really in need of a starting caliber pg. What Im saying is tat with the way the league and contracts are going, Teague best offer if he opts out is a yr deal at ariza level money. He aint going to get a 3 yr deal for more than 10m a year. Teams are always looking to have cap space every year so those 1 year deals are what 30 yr old vets are getting nowadays.

You also have to opt out first of a guaranteed 19m before you can negotiate for another deal. Teague isn't a guy that a team will be hoping that will opt out so they can throw big money and years on. It will be unwise for teague to do that. I dont dislike teague, but it is the reality of the situation.

You do realize Ariza is a full 3 years older than Teague. They aren't in the same class of off-season signings. So yes, Teague will get the deals you are describing...in 3 years just like Ariza did this offseason. Older guys turn down 1 year deals for multiple year deals at a greater total value. That's just what happens when there is cap space to be spent. The one year deals happen when cap space is tight like last offseason. Again you are treating this purely as a cash grab decision for Teague and that's just not how guys think at his age. This summer is his last chance at a multi-year deal. He's gonna take one. And if you are the Suns or the Magic you absolutely do that so your young big men have an NBA PG to operate and develop with. It's the whole reason the Suns fired their GM before the season. He came into the year without a PG to help out Booker and Ayton.

[Monster]

I keep reading posters bringing up teague opting out next year and opening up more cap money. I happen to think that no way jeff teague opt out of 19m. That is not going to happen guys. Teague will never get 19m/yr from another team for the rest of his career after next season. Its the Last big contract of his career.

Your only choice is to trade him. So we should stop having hope that teague opts out next year and freeing more cap space for us to use. Not going to happen.

In no way do I think he is for sure going to opt out, but the reason I have mentioned it as a possibility is the majority of the league has cap space this summer. The other point guard free agents are Irving (signing with Boston), Kemba (near max), Rubio and teague. So not much competition.

So he might want to take the 3yr/13 to 15 mil a year. Instead of taking the 1yr/19 mil and then no cap space for teams in 2020 so he could make 3yr/7mil a year

You also have to factor in situation. This year was/is a shitshow. He's been hurt. The cumulative money he makes on his next deal is gonna be worth more than 19 million and he can go to a better situation with multiple teams needing PG's this summer and cap space available everywhere due to cap spike year deals starting to expire. 3/36 or 3/45 in a better sitution is gonna be a no brainer for him. The only way he stays here is if we make the playoffs and that's a big if at this point. He's as good as gone if we miss the playoffs.

It still dont make sense for teague to opt out. Can you name a team that is going to pay teague the 3/36 or 3/45 that you are throwing out? Have you factor the way the league is going? Teams are throwing out 1 year deals to have cap flexibility year after year. Teague is not a needle mover that you are going to invest 3/36 or 3/45 in. He is a guy you give a 1 yr deal to even at a his salary because he is not viewed as a long term answer at pg for any team. Only way for teague to secure a 3 year deal from any team is if he agrees to a 5-7m deal a year. The team that offer him that will use him as a placeholder while they develop their pg of the future or as a bench guy. That is the reality of teagues situation. He can sign that deal after he take his 19m guaranteed money next season.

I think you have just wildly miscalculated his value in this league. There's a ton of cap space available this summer and the number of stars who are likely gonna be available is getting smaller after every star trade. Why wouldn't teams like the Magic or Suns sign a solid veteran PG to put around their young guys for multiple years while they try to find a solution via the draft? The cap and salaries are going up, not down. You're range of what he will make on the market is backup PG money. He's still a starting caliber PG. That alone is worth more than 10 million a year and likely in the 12-15 range. You're also still assuming he only cares about money. A lot of guys at his point in their careers care more about long-term money on good teams than short term cash grabs. This might be his last multi-year contract before he has to do one year deals. It only takes one offer to get that.

Are you saying that if your the suns, you are willing to give teague a 3yr/36-3yr/45m deal that you are saying? This is the suns who signed 1 year deal for ariza and just buyout chandler. We keep talking about the suns here because they and the magic are the only two teams that are really in need of a starting caliber pg. What Im saying is tat with the way the league and contracts are going, Teague best offer if he opts out is a yr deal at ariza level money. He aint going to get a 3 yr deal for more than 10m a year. Teams are always looking to have cap space every year so those 1 year deals are what 30 yr old vets are getting nowadays.

You also have to opt out first of a guaranteed 19m before you can negotiate for another deal. Teague isn't a guy that a team will be hoping that will opt out so they can throw big money and years on. It will be unwise for teague to do that. I dont dislike teague, but it is the reality of the situation.

You do realize Ariza is a full 3 years older than Teague. They aren't in the same class of off-season signings. So yes, Teague will get the deals you are describing...in 3 years just like Ariza did this offseason. Older guys turn down 1 year deals for multiple year deals at a greater total value. That's just what happens when there is cap space to be spent. The one year deals happen when cap space is tight like last offseason. Again you are treating this purely as a cash grab decision for Teague and that's just not how guys think at his age. This summer is his last chance at a multi-year deal. He's gonna take one.

There is a lot of time between now and when this decision will be made but there is a simple way for both ideas about Teague being discussed here to be correct. Teague opts into 19 million and then the Wolves trade him to a team like the Suns or Magic that want a vet PG but don't want to commit long term to a guy for a bunch of money over a few years. There will be a number of FA PGs available in various levels of their careers and competency. There is a possibility that Teague plays well the next 60 games and ultimately we would actually prefer him to stay on another year. With Butler gone and a lot more spacing it's possible he actually plays even better. He also needs to stay healthy. One of his draws when he signed his last contract was he stayed healthy and didn't miss games. He will be older and may have missed a few games in these last 2 years which would diminish his value a bit.

Another option to clear space would be Teague opting in then taking a buyout and signing with another team. The nice thing about the Covington and Saric deal is we aren't dependent on Doing something with Teague or someone else's salary just to stay under the lux tax. Not taking back bad salary was a real win in that deal that you don't hear much of when it's discussed by a lot of media folks.