Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:PFF stats on our draft class.

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/05/10-pro-football-focus-stats-know-vikings-draft-picks/

My low light is. Ben Gedeon.
Ben Gedeon allowed receptions on 30 of 37 targets between 2014-2016; he did not break up a single pass in that time span, and gave up a QB rating against of 123.2.

That's an interesting read. Yotter and Souhan both agreed on their podcast they simply didn't get that pick. Those WRs sound more interesting and make them a bit more intriguing considering Bradford does have a good arm.

The WR look like big play guys if you can get the ball to them.

Lee might be a sleeper too. He was rated 17th in the LB class by Bleacher.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687982-nfl-draft-400-ranking-the-drafts-top-linebackers


17. Elijah Lee, Kansas State

Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length 3-Cone
6'2 ½" 229 lbs 4.69s 31 1/2" 7.05s


POSITIVES
A two-year starter at Kansas State, Elijah Lee left school early for the NFL draft. Lee had great production over the last three years, totaling 18.5 tackles for loss and 11 sacks while also grabbing five interceptions and notching 10 passes defensed. He's athletic enough to move down the line and track the ball, mirroring ball-carriers and sliding through traffic. He can pull the trigger and come downhill as a tackler. Lee is fast enough to stay in front of the ball and rarely over-runs the play. Early in his career, Lee was used as more of a pass-rusher, and in that role, he showed promise with burst and timing.

NEGATIVES
Lee wasn't invited to the combine--generally a bad sign for an underclassman. His pro-day times were not good for an undersized linebacker selling himself on athleticism. Lee is undersized with little experience and inconsistent play. His play power won't allow him to get off blockers in the NFL. He's short-armed (31 ½") and doesn't possess the explosive strength to shed once a blocker gets his hands on him. Lee's instincts can be slow, and he relied on speed to get into position to make plays. An upside player, Lee is a fit in a 4-3 scheme, but he's undersized and could struggle to become an every-down player.



And then there is Ben. This seems like a simular pick to Brothers last year. Wish we woudl have gone Blair Brown if we felt we needed a LB.

21. Ben Gedeon, Michigan

Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length 3-Cone
6'1 3/4" 244 lbs 4.75s 32 5/8" 6.98s


POSITIVES
A strong, stout middle linebacker, Ben Gedeon started for just one season at Michigan but was a stud on special teams before the 2016 season. Gedeon has an NFL frame and would fill the role of a thumper in a 3-4 defense with how powerful he is at the point of attack. He plays with natural leverage when taking on blockers and can shed and still get to the ball. With ideal length and excellent strength, pencil Gedeon in as a 3-4 inside linebacker. He's a quick processor in the run game despite just one year starting, and he has the burst to fill gaps and stick ball-carriers between the tackles.


NEGATIVES
Gedeon has to keep the ball in front of him; otherwise, he loses his pursuit angle and can get caught falling behind the play. His hips are locked up and he's not great pulling the chain and running outside the hashes. He'll come off the field in the NFL against the pass unless he can improve his quickness and hand use against tight ends. Gedeon is a solid backup inside 'backer prospect and will be a special teams captain, but his upside is limited athletically.


13. Blair Brown, Ohio

Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length 3-Cone
5'11 1/2" 238 lbs 4.65s 31 1/4" 6.92s


POSITIVES
A three-year starter, Blair Brown is an every-down player with the skills to step right into a 4-3 defense as a weak-side linebacker. He's an attacking, aggressive playmaker who finished with 128 tackles, 15 tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks as a senior. He's quick to fill holes in the run game and has the processing skills to pull the chain and get into the backfield. Brown's eyes and instincts are top-notch. His awareness against misdirection allows him to stay disciplined and maintain his assignment. Brown's best traits show up in how quickly he's able to read the play and get himself into position to make plays. He's an instinctive downhill thumper.


NEGATIVES
Brown is undersized, with poor length (31 ¼") and average straight-line speed. Using length to break off blockers will be a struggle for him in the NFL. In coverage, Brown can disappear. His agility in space can be less than ideal--even playing against Mid-American Conference opponents, he was falling behind tight ends and receivers in coverage. His recovery speed in the run and pass games are lacking, too.

WR stuff
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704305-nfl-draft-400-ranking-the-drafts-top-wide-receivers


28. Rodney Adams, South Florida
Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size 3-Cone
6'1 1/4" 189 lbs 4.44s 32" 9" 6.98s


POSITIVES
Rodney Adams profiles as a big slot receiver who is explosive in the open field. At 6'1 ¼" Adams ran a 4.44-second 40-yard dash at the combine and had an impressive broad jump of 125 inches. That translates to his tape as South Florida got him involved in multiple ways. The team used him on screens and jet sweeps to get him in the open field, and it sent him downfield versus nickels and linebackers where he had an advantage with either with his size or speed. Adams had 67 catches for 822 yards and five touchdowns, while adding 23 carries for 236 yards and five touchdowns on the ground. His junior year, he averaged 18.5 yards per reception, which is no surprise with his big-play ability. Adams is an impressive open-field runner, combining speed, vision and elusiveness to turn small plays into big ones. Adams has strong hands, only dropping three passes on the season and showing great strength holding onto the ball through contact. As a blocker, he lacks the functional strength to be a high-end blocker, but his fight and effort will allow him to hold his own.


NEGATIVES
Adams has the size to be an outside deep threat, but he can't handle press coverage, and contact at the top of his route throws him off. On comebacks, he pushes off at the stem of his route far too often to try to create separation. His route tree is limited, as he mostly runs screens, posts and go routes. He will need to improve in this area if he is ever going to be more than a No. 4 option. While Adams had an impressive broad jump, his vertical was disappointing. Adams tested in the 3rd percentile with his 29.5-inch vertical jump. This is a flaw that can be seen on tape as he lacks a good catch radius, and he struggles to go up and get high passes. Adams needs to improve in a lot of areas, but his speed and ability in the open field give him a chance to contribute in the NFL.


34. Stacy Coley, Miami
Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size 3-Cone
6'0" 1/8" 195 lbs 4.45s 32 1/4" 9 3/4" 7.15s


POSITIVES
Stacy Coley is a versatile receiver who can bring different elements to an offense. He can play in the slot and out wide, winning versus both press and off coverage. He is a smart football player who settles in zones nicely and has good stick knowledge. He gets good separation downfield and tracks the ball nicely over his shoulder. He runs a good comeback, driving back to the football and catching it with soft hands. Coley runs good routes and uses his past successes as fakes to create separation on future routes. Coley has the deep speed--he ran a 4.45-second 40-yard dash at the combine--to beat people deep as well as turn the ball upfield after he catches it. He has speed, elusiveness and vision, and he is a threat to hit a home run on every play. He shows an ability to adjust to an underthrown ball and has good body control near the sidelines. Coley also gives great effort blocking; he will run downfield to try to help spring a teammate or hold his own on a screen pass versus a defensive back. Though Miami stopped using him two years ago on returns, Coley does bring return ability. He averaged 24.3 yards per kick return with a touchdown and 13 yards per punt return in 2013 and '14.


NEGATIVES
Durability is an issue for Coley as he has a history of injuries. He has had knee, hip, hamstring and shoulder issues in his career. Coley needs to get physically stronger as contact can affect his routes both at the line of scrimmage and down the field at the top of his routes. He isn't comfortable catching the ball in traffic, leading to dropped and incomplete passes. Coley is a fast, elusive receiver but lacks strength once he is hit; he will not get much hidden yardage.

Sounds like a safety to me, but not an upgrade on Kearse.


33. Jack Tocho, North Carolina State
Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size 3-Cone
6'0" 202 lbs 4.54s 31 5/8 " 9 3/8 " 7.15s


POSITIVES
A four-year starter at North Carolina State, Jack Tocho was a team captain in his senior season. He has an ideal NFL frame with solid speed and the vertical skills to play above the field. Tocho has the strength to play physically at the line of scrimmage and has the play power to impact receivers with his jam. Tocho has a 35-inch vertical jump that helps mask some of his size deficiencies. He has the awareness, strength and physical style NFL teams want and projects as a solid depth corner.


NEGATIVES
A lack of ball skills show up on tape and in the box score. Tocho had just six interceptions in four seasons as a starter. He sat out combine shuttle drills with tightness but ran poor times at his pro day. Tocho plays with a stiff, high backpedal and struggles to work through transitions with speed. His short arms make his recovery radius small. From a change-of-direction standpoint, Tocho doesn't pass the bar. Without ball skills, quickness in space or flexibility, he projects as a late-round pick who must make his living early on special teams.

Like this UDFS signing, but w ehave not shown much luck developing guys like him.

14. Aviante Collins, TCU
Combine Results
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size
6'4" 295 lbs 4.81s 33 3/8 " 9 3/8 "


POSITIVES
When you run a 4.81 in the 40-yard dash at 6'4" and 295 pounds, you're going to send every scout in the country back to the film room. Aviante Collins did just that with his impressive showing at the combine. Not only did he blaze on the track, but Collins showed good quickness and overall agility in field drills. It's no surprise this son of a sprinter is rising up boards.

Collins has an athletic frame and is able to easily move on the field to the second level or on pulls and traps. He won't struggle to mirror defenders and has the burst and balance to be effective getting to the corner in pass protection. Collins consistently wins with quickness and angles. He would be an ideal fit in a zone-blocking scheme--in which he could even play left tackle. He's a tough, hard-working player with excellent wiring and a willingness to improve. He already plays with a solid mean streak that he could build upon.



NEGATIVES
Collins struggled to hold on to the starting job at TCU over the last four years. He started as a freshman then mostly came off the bench before getting back into the lineup as a senior.

He missed most of the 2015 season with an injury. Short arms (33 3/8 "), small hands (9 3/8 ") and a lean frame make Collins a bit undersized overall. He'll need to add strength to play in the trenches against NFL talent. Already, Collins struggles to anchor against power and isn't strong enough in his base to be a stout power-for-power blocker. Improving his power and his balance--which can come with experience--will be crucial keys for his pro development.

This paints a good picture of Danny.

6. Danny Isidora, Miami
Pro Day Results
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size
6'3" 306 lbs 5.00s 33" 9 7/8 "

POSITIVES
A three-year starter at right guard, Danny Isidora has impressive athleticism and the tools to become an NFL starter in time. A high-character leader on the Miami team, you won't have to worry about Isidora off the field. He has an ideal NFL body type and enough length (33") at guard from a 6'3", 306-pound frame. His hand strength is solid when he locks horns with a defender, and he can redirect and drive-block once he's gained leverage. Isidora's coordination and burst are major strengths that will allow him to play in either a zone or man scheme moving forward. He shows a high football IQ and the overall strength and athleticism to play in the NFL early on. Isidora has enough of a mean streak and won't get pushed around physically.

NEGATIVES
Isidora has been banged up in college, missing time in 2013 with a foot injury. It's not helped that he's played in so many offensive systems either, which limited his development as a blocker. Footwork from Isidora can be inconsistent. He'll over-step often and can struggle to maintain body control on lateral moves. The biggest issue moving forward will be how well Isidora handles power moves in the pros. He can get walked back off his spot and will need to focus on improving his core and base strength.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687980-nfl-draft-400-ranking-the-drafts-top-ogs

31. Dylan Bradley, Southern Miss
Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size 3-Cone
6'0 5/8" 286 lbs 5.00s 33 1/8" 9 1/2" 7.76s

POSITIVES
A two-year starter, Dylan Bradley turned heads in 2015 with 12.5 tackles for loss and 6.5 sacks. He improved in his senior season, recording 15.5 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks while playing mostly over center in a 3-4 scheme. He's a versatile defender with the tools to play all over the line and surprisingly good length for his size. Bradley is all effort and uses a big toolbox of pass-rushing moves to stun blockers. He's a little dirty and isn't afraid to get violent. He's quick through the shoots and can chase down the ball and had great production to back up his effort.

NEGATIVES
Bradley lacks the size for a role bigger than a rotational rusher. He's a serious tweener and doesn't have the body type to add more mass. Offensive linemen will easily lock up Bradley if he's ever asked to two-gap or line up in a head-up situation. He needs to be put into a gap where he can make plays and beat bigger, heavier blockers with quickness and leverage. His role might be a gadget one early on, but a team with an imagination and some patience could get quality reps from Bradley.


10. Jaleel Johnson, Iowa
Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length Hand Size 3-Cone
6'2 5/8" 316 lbs 5.12s 33 1/4" 9 5/8" 7.64s

POSITIVES
A two-year starter at Iowa, Jaleel Johnson plays with outstanding awareness and football IQ. He understands hand use and can stack up blockers with his reach. Johnson passes the eye test and looks the part with a solid build. His length allows him to lock out offensive linemen, and he's strong enough to prevent linemen from getting to the second level. A nose tackle prospect, Johnson can collapse pockets. He was a Senior Bowl invite and was powerful and more athletic than expected based on his tape. When Johnson keeps his pads down, he's able to win with quickness.

NEGATIVES
Johnson isn't an athlete and will struggle to penetrate NFL offensive lines. He's a classic stalemate lineman. Poor leverage is an issue. Better pad height out of his stance would help him become a better pro. Johnson showed poor strength on film and in testing (19 bench reps), which is concerning for a player who will make his living stacking up blockers. He is much better working down the line than penetrating. In a two-gap scheme, it's questionable if he could split a double-team.

bleedspeed177 wrote:The WR look like big play guys if you can get the ball to them.

Lee might be a sleeper too. He was rated 17th in the LB class by Bleacher.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687982-nfl-draft-400-ranking-the-drafts-top-linebackers


17. Elijah Lee, Kansas State

Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length 3-Cone
6'2 ½" 229 lbs 4.69s 31 1/2" 7.05s


POSITIVES
A two-year starter at Kansas State, Elijah Lee left school early for the NFL draft. Lee had great production over the last three years, totaling 18.5 tackles for loss and 11 sacks while also grabbing five interceptions and notching 10 passes defensed. He's athletic enough to move down the line and track the ball, mirroring ball-carriers and sliding through traffic. He can pull the trigger and come downhill as a tackler. Lee is fast enough to stay in front of the ball and rarely over-runs the play. Early in his career, Lee was used as more of a pass-rusher, and in that role, he showed promise with burst and timing.

NEGATIVES
Lee wasn't invited to the combine--generally a bad sign for an underclassman. His pro-day times were not good for an undersized linebacker selling himself on athleticism. Lee is undersized with little experience and inconsistent play. His play power won't allow him to get off blockers in the NFL. He's short-armed (31 ½") and doesn't possess the explosive strength to shed once a blocker gets his hands on him. Lee's instincts can be slow, and he relied on speed to get into position to make plays. An upside player, Lee is a fit in a 4-3 scheme, but he's undersized and could struggle to become an every-down player.



And then there is Ben. This seems like a simular pick to Brothers last year. Wish we woudl have gone Blair Brown if we felt we needed a LB.

21. Ben Gedeon, Michigan

Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length 3-Cone
6'1 3/4" 244 lbs 4.75s 32 5/8" 6.98s


POSITIVES
A strong, stout middle linebacker, Ben Gedeon started for just one season at Michigan but was a stud on special teams before the 2016 season. Gedeon has an NFL frame and would fill the role of a thumper in a 3-4 defense with how powerful he is at the point of attack. He plays with natural leverage when taking on blockers and can shed and still get to the ball. With ideal length and excellent strength, pencil Gedeon in as a 3-4 inside linebacker. He's a quick processor in the run game despite just one year starting, and he has the burst to fill gaps and stick ball-carriers between the tackles.


NEGATIVES
Gedeon has to keep the ball in front of him; otherwise, he loses his pursuit angle and can get caught falling behind the play. His hips are locked up and he's not great pulling the chain and running outside the hashes. He'll come off the field in the NFL against the pass unless he can improve his quickness and hand use against tight ends. Gedeon is a solid backup inside 'backer prospect and will be a special teams captain, but his upside is limited athletically.


13. Blair Brown, Ohio

Measurables
Height Weight 40 Time Arm Length 3-Cone
5'11 1/2" 238 lbs 4.65s 31 1/4" 6.92s


POSITIVES
A three-year starter, Blair Brown is an every-down player with the skills to step right into a 4-3 defense as a weak-side linebacker. He's an attacking, aggressive playmaker who finished with 128 tackles, 15 tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks as a senior. He's quick to fill holes in the run game and has the processing skills to pull the chain and get into the backfield. Brown's eyes and instincts are top-notch. His awareness against misdirection allows him to stay disciplined and maintain his assignment. Brown's best traits show up in how quickly he's able to read the play and get himself into position to make plays. He's an instinctive downhill thumper.


NEGATIVES
Brown is undersized, with poor length (31 ¼") and average straight-line speed. Using length to break off blockers will be a struggle for him in the NFL. In coverage, Brown can disappear. His agility in space can be less than ideal--even playing against Mid-American Conference opponents, he was falling behind tight ends and receivers in coverage. His recovery speed in the run and pass games are lacking, too.

I keep reading about Gedeon being a stud on ST. Could that have been enough of a swaying factor to take him over other players? Maybe Priefer told them something like "look at the tape this guy will be one of the top guys on ST day 1" I'm not suggested they spent that pick on a ST guy but it could have been a factor. If he is a more I stictive version of Audie Cole that would actually be a pretty solid player.

It feels like Jaleel Johnson has wide ranging draft write ups. One makes him sound like a guy that gets up the field. One makes him sound like a run stopper. Some people say he is athletic and others say he isn't. Im not sure what he is and isn't but it seems he is talented. Of course I Remember the profile on Hunter was a boring player who was only good against the run and couldn't pass rush.

monsterpile wrote:It feels like Jaleel Johnson has wide ranging draft write ups. One makes him sound like a guy that gets up the field. One makes him sound like a run stopper. Some people say he is athletic and others say he isn't. Im not sure what he is and isn't but it seems he is talented. Of course I Remember the profile on Hunter was a boring player who was only good against the run and couldn't pass rush.

I agree. He got a lot of pressure on the QB. I think his wrestling background helps him a ton in getting leverage and using his hands and shooting the gap if needed.

"Johnson ranked seventh in the draft class with a pass-rush productivity of 10.4, with eight sacks, eight QB hits, and 27 hurries on 344 rushes. " Sounds like a run stuffer to me.