Minnesota Sports Forum

Before last night's game, I mentioned that I liked the Raptors at home because 2 of the Cavs "Big 3" hadn't shown they were ready to play well in a close game in front of a hostile crowd. Well, Irving shot well, but he was horrible on defense, and turned the ball over the few times LeBron let him handle the ball. but the real goat was Kevin Love, who completely choked with the spotlight shining on him. He came out aggressive and James gave him plenty of wide open looks, but he couldn't make his shots.

After the game, Tyrone Lue shows that he is an avid reader of this board when he explained why he didn't put Love in the game the entire 4th quarter. He didn't say he was worried about Love's knee, and he didn't say he wanted to ride Frye's hot hand. He said he didn't want to play Love in front of a hostile crowd. Wow! That is one of the most damning post-game comments I have ever heard a coach make about a near all-star.

If his knee is all right, I think Love bounces back and shoots well in Cleveland Wednesday night, but he sure crapped the bed in Toronto both games.

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Safe to say I'm shocked at this result. Good call LST

I really thought halfway through the 4th quarter that LeBron was going to put the team on his back and carry them to victory. He was unbelievable in the 4th, creating easy shots for everyone. Yes, Frye was unconscious, but LeBron was the reason Cleveland made their first 10 shots of the quarter. He showed again that he is the best player in the league.

I didn't think Toronto defended the 3 as well tonight as they did in Game 3...Smith and Love just didn't hit their shots. I'm sensing a Cavs blowout Wednesday night.

Frye seams to be better fit for the role that Cavs have for Love. Frye is better three point shooter and less liability in defensive end. Inreresting to see if Cavs will consider trading Love this summer.

Don't know if Frye is any kind of upgrade defensively. But he seems to be a great fit for Cleveland (yet again... a contender fleeces a crappy team out of a key playoff contributor for virtually nothing in return).

Goes back to the point I've made for 2 years now... The Cavs could have had Ryan Anderson for 1/2 the price of Kevin Love AND kept Andrew Wiggins... yikes.

They're using Kevin Love as a three point shooter when he's only average out there. Frye and Anderson are closer to elite. The rub is that Love can pass and score in the post. (or can he?) He's shooting 28 - 91 (31%) from the post in the playoffs.

Frye is at 61% overall and 58% on three pointers. He gives them SO MUCH spacing. Will Game 5 be the first time he gets more run than Love?

By the way, I was nearly as confident as Cool about Toronto's slim chances in this series. Ummmm...

AbeVigodaLive wrote:By the way, I was nearly as confident as Cool about Toronto's slim chances in this series. Ummmm...

:-d

Toronto can't win the series, but it could go 7. I'll still say Cleveland wins the next 2.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:By the way, I was nearly as confident as Cool about Toronto's slim chances in this series. Ummmm...

:-d

Toronto can't win the series, but it could go 7. I'll still say Cleveland wins the next 2.

And I still agree with you...

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Safe to say I'm shocked at this result. Good call LST

I really thought halfway through the 4th quarter that LeBron was going to put the team on his back and carry them to victory. He was unbelievable in the 4th, creating easy shots for everyone. Yes, Frye was unconscious, but LeBron was the reason Cleveland made their first 10 shots of the quarter. He showed again that he is the best player in the league.

I didn't think Toronto defended the 3 as well tonight as they did in Game 3...Smith and Love just didn't hit their shots. I'm sensing a Cavs blowout Wednesday night.

Frye seams to be better fit for the role that Cavs have for Love. Frye is better three point shooter and less liability in defensive end. Inreresting to see if Cavs will consider trading Love this summer.

Don't know if Frye is any kind of upgrade defensively. But he seems to be a great fit for Cleveland (yet again... a contender fleeces a crappy team out of a key playoff contributor for virtually nothing in return).

Goes back to the point I've made for 2 years now... The Cavs could have had Ryan Anderson for 1/2 the price of Kevin Love AND kept Andrew Wiggins... yikes.

They're using Kevin Love as a three point shooter when he's only average out there. Frye and Anderson are closer to elite. The rub is that Love can pass and score in the post. (or can he?) He's shooting 28 - 91 (31%) from the post in the playoffs.

Frye is at 61% overall and 58% on three pointers. He gives them SO MUCH spacing. Will Game 5 be the first time he gets more run than Love?

Frye and Love are different players. Love is by far the better rebounder and passer, but Frye is a better 3-point shooter and a better defender (he's vastly underrated in this area). I think Lue realizes Love is a classic front runner, and if he's healthy, will get most of the minutes Wednesday...and I think he will have a pretty good game. But I expect Lue to use Frye more frequently in Toronto Friday.

Cleveland may have the weakest defensive starting five in conference finals history with Smith, Irving and Love. All three can show moments of offensive brilliance, but when they are missing their shots like Love and Smith were last night, they hurt the Cavs. King James isn't enough to win a championship if the other pieces don't contribute more.

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Safe to say I'm shocked at this result. Good call LST

I really thought halfway through the 4th quarter that LeBron was going to put the team on his back and carry them to victory. He was unbelievable in the 4th, creating easy shots for everyone. Yes, Frye was unconscious, but LeBron was the reason Cleveland made their first 10 shots of the quarter. He showed again that he is the best player in the league.

I didn't think Toronto defended the 3 as well tonight as they did in Game 3...Smith and Love just didn't hit their shots. I'm sensing a Cavs blowout Wednesday night.

Frye seams to be better fit for the role that Cavs have for Love. Frye is better three point shooter and less liability in defensive end. Inreresting to see if Cavs will consider trading Love this summer.

Don't know if Frye is any kind of upgrade defensively. But he seems to be a great fit for Cleveland (yet again... a contender fleeces a crappy team out of a key playoff contributor for virtually nothing in return).

Goes back to the point I've made for 2 years now... The Cavs could have had Ryan Anderson for 1/2 the price of Kevin Love AND kept Andrew Wiggins... yikes.

They're using Kevin Love as a three point shooter when he's only average out there. Frye and Anderson are closer to elite. The rub is that Love can pass and score in the post. (or can he?) He's shooting 28 - 91 (31%) from the post in the playoffs.

Frye is at 61% overall and 58% on three pointers. He gives them SO MUCH spacing. Will Game 5 be the first time he gets more run than Love?

Frye and Love are different players. Love is by far the better rebounder and passer, but Frye is a better 3-point shooter and a better defender (he's vastly underrated in this area). I think Lue realizes Love is a classic front runner, and if he's healthy, will get most of the minutes Wednesday...and I think he will have a pretty good game. But I expect Lue to use Frye more frequently in Toronto Friday.

Cleveland may have the weakest defensive starting five in conference finals history with Smith, Irving and Love. All three can show moments of offensive brilliance, but when they are missing their shots like Love and Smith were last night, they hurt the Cavs. King James isn't enough to win a championship if the other pieces don't contribute more.

I don't think they're quite THAT bad. At least not the worst ever.

Remember, the mid-80s Denver Nuggets made the WCF. The 1988 Dallas Mavericks. And the 1987 Seattle Supersonics started Tom Chambers and Dale Ellis and were markedly worse by almost all defensive metrics.

Good gawd. Remember when I was whining about how easy Magic and Co. had it in the 1980s in the Western Conference... it might have been even easier than I remembered...

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Safe to say I'm shocked at this result. Good call LST

I really thought halfway through the 4th quarter that LeBron was going to put the team on his back and carry them to victory. He was unbelievable in the 4th, creating easy shots for everyone. Yes, Frye was unconscious, but LeBron was the reason Cleveland made their first 10 shots of the quarter. He showed again that he is the best player in the league.

I didn't think Toronto defended the 3 as well tonight as they did in Game 3...Smith and Love just didn't hit their shots. I'm sensing a Cavs blowout Wednesday night.

Frye seams to be better fit for the role that Cavs have for Love. Frye is better three point shooter and less liability in defensive end. Inreresting to see if Cavs will consider trading Love this summer.

Don't know if Frye is any kind of upgrade defensively. But he seems to be a great fit for Cleveland (yet again... a contender fleeces a crappy team out of a key playoff contributor for virtually nothing in return).

Goes back to the point I've made for 2 years now... The Cavs could have had Ryan Anderson for 1/2 the price of Kevin Love AND kept Andrew Wiggins... yikes.

They're using Kevin Love as a three point shooter when he's only average out there. Frye and Anderson are closer to elite. The rub is that Love can pass and score in the post. (or can he?) He's shooting 28 - 91 (31%) from the post in the playoffs.

Frye is at 61% overall and 58% on three pointers. He gives them SO MUCH spacing. Will Game 5 be the first time he gets more run than Love?

Frye and Love are different players. Love is by far the better rebounder and passer, but Frye is a better 3-point shooter and a better defender (he's vastly underrated in this area). I think Lue realizes Love is a classic front runner, and if he's healthy, will get most of the minutes Wednesday...and I think he will have a pretty good game. But I expect Lue to use Frye more frequently in Toronto Friday.

Cleveland may have the weakest defensive starting five in conference finals history with Smith, Irving and Love. All three can show moments of offensive brilliance, but when they are missing their shots like Love and Smith were last night, they hurt the Cavs. King James isn't enough to win a championship if the other pieces don't contribute more.

I don't think they're quite THAT bad. At least not the worst ever.

Remember, the mid-80s Denver Nuggets made the WCF. The 1988 Dallas Mavericks. And the 1987 Seattle Supersonics started Tom Chambers and Dale Ellis and were markedly worse by almost all defensive metrics.

Good gawd. Remember when I was whining about how easy Magic and Co. had it in the 1980s in the Western Conference... it might have been even easier than I remembered...

This Cavs team is better defensively than most of the teams in the early days of the NBA, but they're right up there in terms of worst defensive teams in the finals in the modern age. Those Denver teams were poor defensively too, but did the teams you mention have three starters as bad as Smith, Irving and Love? I don't know...maybe. All I know is that the Cavs had a lot more energy last night when Irving and Love were on the bench.

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Safe to say I'm shocked at this result. Good call LST

I really thought halfway through the 4th quarter that LeBron was going to put the team on his back and carry them to victory. He was unbelievable in the 4th, creating easy shots for everyone. Yes, Frye was unconscious, but LeBron was the reason Cleveland made their first 10 shots of the quarter. He showed again that he is the best player in the league.

I didn't think Toronto defended the 3 as well tonight as they did in Game 3...Smith and Love just didn't hit their shots. I'm sensing a Cavs blowout Wednesday night.

Frye seams to be better fit for the role that Cavs have for Love. Frye is better three point shooter and less liability in defensive end. Inreresting to see if Cavs will consider trading Love this summer.

Don't know if Frye is any kind of upgrade defensively. But he seems to be a great fit for Cleveland (yet again... a contender fleeces a crappy team out of a key playoff contributor for virtually nothing in return).

Goes back to the point I've made for 2 years now... The Cavs could have had Ryan Anderson for 1/2 the price of Kevin Love AND kept Andrew Wiggins... yikes.

They're using Kevin Love as a three point shooter when he's only average out there. Frye and Anderson are closer to elite. The rub is that Love can pass and score in the post. (or can he?) He's shooting 28 - 91 (31%) from the post in the playoffs.

Frye is at 61% overall and 58% on three pointers. He gives them SO MUCH spacing. Will Game 5 be the first time he gets more run than Love?

Frye and Love are different players. Love is by far the better rebounder and passer, but Frye is a better 3-point shooter and a better defender (he's vastly underrated in this area). I think Lue realizes Love is a classic front runner, and if he's healthy, will get most of the minutes Wednesday...and I think he will have a pretty good game. But I expect Lue to use Frye more frequently in Toronto Friday.

Cleveland may have the weakest defensive starting five in conference finals history with Smith, Irving and Love. All three can show moments of offensive brilliance, but when they are missing their shots like Love and Smith were last night, they hurt the Cavs. King James isn't enough to win a championship if the other pieces don't contribute more.

I don't think they're quite THAT bad. At least not the worst ever.

Remember, the mid-80s Denver Nuggets made the WCF. The 1988 Dallas Mavericks. And the 1987 Seattle Supersonics started Tom Chambers and Dale Ellis and were markedly worse by almost all defensive metrics.

Good gawd. Remember when I was whining about how easy Magic and Co. had it in the 1980s in the Western Conference... it might have been even easier than I remembered...

This Cavs team is better defensively than most of the teams in the early days of the NBA, but they're right up there in terms of worst defensive teams in the finals in the modern age. Those Denver teams were poor defensively too, but did the teams you mention have three starters as bad as Smith, Irving and Love? I don't know...maybe. All I know is that the Cavs had a lot more energy last night when Irving and Love were on the bench.

I consider everything post merger as the modern NBA. It hasn't changed THAT much. Yes... those teams were poor defensively. Alex English. Calvin Natt. Even an old Dan Issel got quality run. As for the Sonics... Tom Chambers makes Kevin Love look like Ben Wallace sometimes.

It is interesting though to see Cleveland trying to return to the Finals with a different approach than last year. They made things uneasy for GSW through grit and defense. Thus far, they've been able to bombard opponents with the long-distance shooting and superior skill.

As noted, Love is a frontrunner... but so is most of that team, including LeBron James. Heck, very early in my posting career when I railed against the likes of Rashad McCants, I also ripped guys like JR Smith. Give the Nuggets a 9 point lead in the 4th quarter, and Smith would make it 20. Put that team in the proverbial meat grinder... and he was shooting contested turnaround 25 footers that missed the rim.

This is the first inkling of adversity (even though they still hold homecourt advantage and remain prohibitive favorites)... let's see how they react.

Abe, remember the old early 80's matchups between the Bucks, Sixers, and Celtics? Each of those teams played really good defense. The Sixers had Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones, The Celtics DJ, Parrish, McHale, and the Bucks had Moncrief, Bridgeman and Lister. The competition was kind of like the West today. My Bucks could never get over the hump, but the eventual conference champion was battle tested when they reached the finals.