Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:44 pm**

Kg in his first year with Boston sacrificed his own offensive game to focus on being the anchor of that defense. Even in doin so he was still a better overall player than Love. Will Love ever be able to sacrifice his own offense and still be considered a great player? I say no becuz his defense is okay at best and hes not long enough or athletic enough to ever change that.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:53 pm**

zigzag22 wrote:The gap between "What Wiggins might be one day" vs. "What Kevin Love is Today" is so large, yet for some of you it appears that gap is closing fast.

Why is Cleveland pinning their hopes on what Wiggins COULD be (year 3, year 4, etc.) while their BEST player (who btw does have a sneaky opt-out NEXT season) is almost 30 and has played more hoops in the last 5 years than any human being on planet Earth. Just because Cleveland doesn't have a ton of playoff experience (outside of LBJ) does NOT mean that they aren't in a win-now situation....

Perhaps the big hold-up here is that Love won't 100% commit to re-signing. I believe all he has said is that he's "intrigued". That means there is a possibility they lose the #1 pick in the draft for a one-year rental.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:59 pm**

I think the real point Q makes here is that there is a LOT we don't know. For all we know Flip could be far down the road with another team I guess that's what makes it fun. I'll reiterate again regarding Wiggins: I think as soon as he stepped on summer league court, that ended any chance of us getting him. The only thing I can't explain is why they haven't signed him And that at least provides a little hope for the Wiggins fans, of which I am one.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:04 pm**

Q12543 wrote:
zigzag22 wrote:The gap between "What Wiggins might be one day" vs. "What Kevin Love is Today" is so large, yet for some of you it appears that gap is closing fast.

Why is Cleveland pinning their hopes on what Wiggins COULD be (year 3, year 4, etc.) while their BEST player (who btw does have a sneaky opt-out NEXT season) is almost 30 and has played more hoops in the last 5 years than any human being on planet Earth. Just because Cleveland doesn't have a ton of playoff experience (outside of LBJ) does NOT mean that they aren't in a win-now situation....

Perhaps the big hold-up here is that Love won't 100% commit to re-signing. I believe all he has said is that he's "intrigued". That means there is a possibility they lose the #1 pick in the draft for a one-year rental.

That was apparently a quote from Love. But I've also read and heard reports that Love's agent has let the Cavs know he would commit there long term. No sense over-thinking this. The Cavs organization has stated several times, most recently through Blatz, that they're not trading Wiggins. I suppose it could be posturing, but I suspect they're sincere. If they're posturing they'll soon get it through their heads that Flip won't give them Love without Wiggins in return, at which point they'll do the deal. I really think it's that simple.

As I've said before, Flip is very comfortable keeping Love this next season even if it means Love walks next summer. I am absolutely certain of that. I happen to disagree and think Flip should take the best deal he can get before the season begins. I'm fairly certain we can get a deal from the Celtics that would land Smart, Olynyk and a couple first round picks. I'd take that deal and be done with it rather than end up with nothing but useless cap space next summer. That's my view although reasonable minds can differ.

I can't explain the Cavs thinking on Wiggins. All the respected NBA analysts who have commented, including former head coaches and GMs, have said the deal is a no-brainier for the Cavs. Personally, I'm not sold on Wiggins. Watching him in Summer League I've noticed that his handle is even worse than I initially thought by NBA wing standards. His college stats were mediocre -- nothing like Kevin Durant's his Freshman year. He just doesn't stand out the way a future star should in Summer League. However, I've been impressed by Bennett so far in Summer League. Give me Bennett, Waiters and Tristan Thompson along with a couple future firsts and I'd do the deal without Wiggins. But I don't see Flip taking that deal.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:26 pm**

lipoli390 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
zigzag22 wrote:The gap between "What Wiggins might be one day" vs. "What Kevin Love is Today" is so large, yet for some of you it appears that gap is closing fast.

Why is Cleveland pinning their hopes on what Wiggins COULD be (year 3, year 4, etc.) while their BEST player (who btw does have a sneaky opt-out NEXT season) is almost 30 and has played more hoops in the last 5 years than any human being on planet Earth. Just because Cleveland doesn't have a ton of playoff experience (outside of LBJ) does NOT mean that they aren't in a win-now situation....

Perhaps the big hold-up here is that Love won't 100% commit to re-signing. I believe all he has said is that he's "intrigued". That means there is a possibility they lose the #1 pick in the draft for a one-year rental.

That was apparently a quote from Love. But I've also read and heard reports that Love's agent has let the Cavs know he would commit there long term. No sense over-thinking this. The Cavs organization has stated several times, most recently through Blatz, that they're not trading Wiggins. I suppose it could be posturing, but I suspect they're sincere. If they're posturing they'll soon get it through their heads that Flip won't give them Love without Wiggins in return, at which point they'll do the deal. I really think it's that simple.

As I've said before, Flip is very comfortable keeping Love this next season even if it means Love walks next summer. I am absolutely certain of that. I happen to disagree and think Flip should take the best deal he can get before the season begins. I'm fairly certain we can get a deal from the Celtics that would land Smart, Olynyk and a couple first round picks. I'd take that deal and be done with it rather than end up with nothing but useless cap space next summer. That's my view although reasonable minds can differ.

I can't explain the Cavs thinking on Wiggins. All the respected NBA analysts who have commented, including former head coaches and GMs, have said the deal is a no-brainier for the Cavs. Personally, I'm not sold on Wiggins. Watching him in Summer League I've noticed that his handle is even worse than I initially thought by NBA wing standards. His college stats were mediocre -- nothing like Kevin Durant's his Freshman year. He just doesn't stand out the way a future star should in Summer League. However, I've been impressed by Bennett so far in Summer League. Give me Bennett, Waiters and Tristan Thompson along with a couple future firsts and I'd do the deal without Wiggins. But I don't see Flip taking that deal.

You say this about Wiggins after two games all the while being impressed by a guy in Bennet who had a whole season of mediocrity but has played well in two games? Seems a bit extreme from both ends.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:34 pm**

lipoli390 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
zigzag22 wrote:The gap between "What Wiggins might be one day" vs. "What Kevin Love is Today" is so large, yet for some of you it appears that gap is closing fast.

Why is Cleveland pinning their hopes on what Wiggins COULD be (year 3, year 4, etc.) while their BEST player (who btw does have a sneaky opt-out NEXT season) is almost 30 and has played more hoops in the last 5 years than any human being on planet Earth. Just because Cleveland doesn't have a ton of playoff experience (outside of LBJ) does NOT mean that they aren't in a win-now situation....

Perhaps the big hold-up here is that Love won't 100% commit to re-signing. I believe all he has said is that he's "intrigued". That means there is a possibility they lose the #1 pick in the draft for a one-year rental.

That was apparently a quote from Love. But I've also read and heard reports that Love's agent has let the Cavs know he would commit there long term. No sense over-thinking this. The Cavs organization has stated several times, most recently through Blatz, that they're not trading Wiggins. I suppose it could be posturing, but I suspect they're sincere. If they're posturing they'll soon get it through their heads that Flip won't give them Love without Wiggins in return, at which point they'll do the deal. I really think it's that simple.

As I've said before, Flip is very comfortable keeping Love this next season even if it means Love walks next summer. I am absolutely certain of that. I happen to disagree and think Flip should take the best deal he can get before the season begins. I'm fairly certain we can get a deal from the Celtics that would land Smart, Olynyk and a couple first round picks. I'd take that deal and be done with it rather than end up with nothing but useless cap space next summer. That's my view although reasonable minds can differ.

I can't explain the Cavs thinking on Wiggins. All the respected NBA analysts who have commented, including former head coaches and GMs, have said the deal is a no-brainier for the Cavs. Personally, I'm not sold on Wiggins. Watching him in Summer League I've noticed that his handle is even worse than I initially thought by NBA wing standards. His college stats were mediocre -- nothing like Kevin Durant's his Freshman year. He just doesn't stand out the way a future star should in Summer League. However, I've been impressed by Bennett so far in Summer League. Give me Bennett, Waiters and Tristan Thompson along with a couple future firsts and I'd do the deal without Wiggins. But I don't see Flip taking that deal.

Lip, im not making any deal with cavs without wiggins. Thompson and waiters are what they are now. Bennet still have potential but he doesnt have the potential of wiggins. I will say that wiggins wont have a year like bennet did last season ih his whole career.

Wiggins or dont bother to deal with cavs for me.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:45 pm**

lipoli390 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
zigzag22 wrote:The gap between "What Wiggins might be one day" vs. "What Kevin Love is Today" is so large, yet for some of you it appears that gap is closing fast.

Why is Cleveland pinning their hopes on what Wiggins COULD be (year 3, year 4, etc.) while their BEST player (who btw does have a sneaky opt-out NEXT season) is almost 30 and has played more hoops in the last 5 years than any human being on planet Earth. Just because Cleveland doesn't have a ton of playoff experience (outside of LBJ) does NOT mean that they aren't in a win-now situation....

Perhaps the big hold-up here is that Love won't 100% commit to re-signing. I believe all he has said is that he's "intrigued". That means there is a possibility they lose the #1 pick in the draft for a one-year rental.

That was apparently a quote from Love. But I've also read and heard reports that Love's agent has let the Cavs know he would commit there long term. No sense over-thinking this. The Cavs organization has stated several times, most recently through Blatz, that they're not trading Wiggins. I suppose it could be posturing, but I suspect they're sincere. If they're posturing they'll soon get it through their heads that Flip won't give them Love without Wiggins in return, at which point they'll do the deal. I really think it's that simple.

As I've said before, Flip is very comfortable keeping Love this next season even if it means Love walks next summer. I am absolutely certain of that. I happen to disagree and think Flip should take the best deal he can get before the season begins. I'm fairly certain we can get a deal from the Celtics that would land Smart, Olynyk and a couple first round picks. I'd take that deal and be done with it rather than end up with nothing but useless cap space next summer. That's my view although reasonable minds can differ.

I can't explain the Cavs thinking on Wiggins. All the respected NBA analysts who have commented, including former head coaches and GMs, have said the deal is a no-brainier for the Cavs. Personally, I'm not sold on Wiggins. Watching him in Summer League I've noticed that his handle is even worse than I initially thought by NBA wing standards. His college stats were mediocre -- nothing like Kevin Durant's his Freshman year. He just doesn't stand out the way a future star should in Summer League. However, I've been impressed by Bennett so far in Summer League. Give me Bennett, Waiters and Tristan Thompson along with a couple future firsts and I'd do the deal without Wiggins. But I don't see Flip taking that deal.[/quot

Espn Insider has an article saying quite the opposite Lip. Of 12 GMs spoken to 7 said theyd keep Wiggins.

Posted: **Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:06 am**

Lipoli, I found your most recent post in this thread intriguing. I'm a big Bennett fan and am willing to give him a pass on last year based on his injury and showing up in shape. He has classic NBA body and looks much more athletic this year, and I think he is going to be a double double machine. So I would also consider trading Love for Bennett, TT and Waiters. I wouldn't be in love with that deal, though, and I agree that Flip would probably not do it. I can't fault him for that...at least not right now.

I'm not in agreement, though, on Wiggins' potential...I think it is sky high, and that's why I don't disagree with the Cavs' current decision to keep him. This is a guy who was widely considered to be the best prospect since LeBron (although not at LeBron's level, to be sure) coming out of high school, and he deserved to be the first pick in the best draft in years. And he was pretty good in his one year in college...leading a very good Kansas team in scoring at 17.1. And he got better as the season went on, averaging 20 points a game when it really mattered in March. His athleticism approaches LaVine's, but he combines it with a 6'-8" frame and enormous length that promises to turn him into a defensive star. Many of us are excited about LaVine's potential even though he didn't perform well his one year in college...we should be twice as excited about Wiggins' upside.

Porkchop is right...the national media is quite divided on the wisdom of the Cavs' including Wiggins in a deal for Love, and I agree that a case can be made either way. Although I don't think it's likely, I really hope the Cavs' relent and decide to include Wiggins. But if I'm a Cavs' fan, I really want to see what those five young high picks (Irving, Waiters, Bennett, Wiggins and TT) can do playing with LeBron. LeBron attracts so much attention and has such an exceptional ability to find the open teammate, these guys are going to get a lot of open looks....and most NBA wings drain open looks. The Cavs were not a good 3-point team last year, but with the addition of LBJ, I see Irving, Wiggins, Waiters and Bennett all capable of hitting 40% from beyond the arc. He's that effective at making teammates better, and he has to be drooling at the prospect of passing to so many high draft picks.

Posted: **Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:14 am**

We need to get Boston engaged. We need to set a deadline before the end of August for teams to make an offer for Love or we will wait until the trade deadline.

Posted: **Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:31 am**

Wiggins support

"Love is so overrated. He's never won," one NBA executive said. "I'd wait if I was Cleveland. I wouldn't involve Wiggins in a trade for Love."

"Kevin is a perimeter big," added one coach. "He needs to have the ball on multiple possessions to be really effective. It will be very difficult for a first-year coach to divide possessions between LeBron, Kyrie and Love."

"Wiggins is going to be really good in time," added an NBA general manager. "Right now he can shoot and defend. Playing off LeBron and Kyrie [Irving] will take a lot of the pressure off him in the present. He could become a go-to scorer in a few years."

"Star potential on rookie scale deal for four years," another GM added.

"I feel like Wiggins may only be a year or so away from being a legit contributor," one front-office executive said. "And Wiggins is cheap, so you are able to add more. Love is gonna cost a ton."
Love support

"Why wait on Wiggins when Love makes them better now," one a$sistant GM said. "And if you don't get Love now, he's going to be a Laker next summer."

"I definitely wouldn't want to, but might have to," one high-ranking NBA executive said. "I wouldn't want to because Wiggins has a chance to be one of the top five players in the league and you could be set for 10 years. However, I might do it because Love helps you win a title in the next couple."

"I know what Love can do. He's a proven commodity, plus his game meshes with LeBron's," one NBA scout said.

"Without a doubt. Cleveland would be a top-five team in the NBA and the top team in the East -- with Chicago and Indiana a close second and third," an NBA exec said.

"Cleveland becomes the favorite to win it all with the trio of LeBron, Kyrie and Love. With Wiggins, it's going to take time. Sure, he'll give you a terrific defender -- but now you have that with LeBron."

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