Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:Harden took 23 three pointers!? That is crazy. How do you let a guy get off that many 3's!? I mean, do whatever it takes to get the ball out of his hands and make PJ Tucker or someone beat you.

I think what we're seeing from Harden lately is similar to what we saw from Westbrook a couple seasons ago where he just went solo and goes nuts on everyone. I just can't see it sustainable over a long playoff run.

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

Coaching matters - a lot. So does front office decision-making - from the quality of an organization's scouts to their PBO. You might have noticed that Murray put up 36 points with 7 rebounds and 6 assists last night. Buddy Hield put up 29 points, shooting 5-9 from behind the arc. John Collins is averaging amost 19 points and slightly over 10 rebounds per game this season at age 21. There's a pretty good player named Jokic who Denver took with the 41st pick in the draft. The Wolves need to upgrade both their head coach and front office.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Speaking of those Rockets... and connecting them to the Wolves... will the Wolves (even if good) ever be a top destination for bought out players?

Austin Rivers is not a good player... but he was a key rotation guy for multiple playoff teams in Los Angeles. He wasn't good enough (or bad enough) to even be on the roster for one of the worst teams in the league. So instead... he goes to a WCF team and plays 43 minutes basically right away.

Veteran players who get bought out are such a key part of deep playoff teams. It happens every year. In fact, they used to turn to Minnesota as a pipeline for those types of players. I gotta admit that I don't like the practice... it just highlights that teams are trying to lose and that there is a huge chasm between the haves (premier teams) and the have nots.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

I agree he is the best coach of all time but let's not forget he has 2 all NBA players from last year on his team

Without a doubt Aldridge and DeRozan are really key to that squad because they can carry a heavy load offensively, allowing others to play to their strengths as role players. But I put both as sort of 3rd tier stars. DeRozan is not good defensively and both score at about league average efficiency or slightly above it. DeRozan has a net rating of +.6 and Aldridge is at +.4, ranking them near the bottom of the regular rotation players for the Spurs. Meanwhile guys like Poeltl, Bertans, White, and Mills are just killing it.

I think the magic of Pop is that he can take a fairly pedestrian individual player with one or two decent skills and squeeze the absolute maximum production possible out of that person.

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

I agree he is the best coach of all time but let's not forget he has 2 all NBA players from last year on his team

Without a doubt Aldridge and DeRozan are really key to that squad because they can carry a heavy load offensively, allowing others to play to their strengths as role players. But I put both as sort of 3rd tier stars. DeRozan is not good defensively and both score at about league average efficiency or slightly above it. DeRozan has a net rating of +.6 and Aldridge is at +.4, ranking them near the bottom of the regular rotation players for the Spurs. Meanwhile guys like Poeltl, Bertans, White, and Mills are just killing it.

I think the magic of Pop is that he can take a fairly pedestrian individual player with one or two decent skills and squeeze the absolute maximum production possible out of that person.

Remember back when Aldridge was shooting like 43% and couldn't hit mid range jumpers? He shot over 53% in December. He wasn't gonna keep sucking that bad offensively all year. That helps.

crazy-canuck wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Harden took 23 three pointers!? That is crazy. How do you let a guy get off that many 3's!? I mean, do whatever it takes to get the ball out of his hands and make PJ Tucker or someone beat you.

I think what we're seeing from Harden lately is similar to what we saw from Westbrook a couple seasons ago where he just went solo and goes nuts on everyone. I just can't see it sustainable over a long playoff run.

Oh they tried. But, the players on the team have a role and purpose; get the ball to harden and get him some space.

Its weird watching non wolves games because teams just dont hesitate to let it fly. Im so accustomed to our guys hesitate, look confused, then take a contested 3 when they already had an opening.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

Coaching matters - a lot. So does front office decision-making - from the quality of an organization's scouts to their PBO. You might have noticed that Murray put up 36 points with 7 rebounds and 6 assists last night. Buddy Hield put up 29 points, shooting 5-9 from behind the arc. John Collins is averaging amost 19 points and slightly over 10 rebounds per game this season at age 21. There's a pretty good player named Jokic who Denver took with the 41st pick in the draft. The Wolves need to upgrade both their head coach and front office.

While I agree with your general premise that an organization needs good coaching and front offices to succeed, every org has hits and misses. For example, Atlanta might have nabbed John Collins... but they also passed on Luka Doncic for Trae Young.

Unfortunately for Wolves fans... the misses have overwhelmed the hits... for a very long time. This regime hasn't been able to overcome that. Hopefully, the next regime is better. Finally.

But it's an uphill battle, because the owner is part of any regime. And Glen Taylor has largely been atrocious.

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

Coaching matters - a lot. So does front office decision-making - from the quality of an organization's scouts to their PBO. You might have noticed that Murray put up 36 points with 7 rebounds and 6 assists last night. Buddy Hield put up 29 points, shooting 5-9 from behind the arc. John Collins is averaging amost 19 points and slightly over 10 rebounds per game this season at age 21. There's a pretty good player named Jokic who Denver took with the 41st pick in the draft. The Wolves need to upgrade both their head coach and front office.

While I agree with your general premise that an organization needs good coaching and front offices to succeed, every org has hits and misses. For example, Atlanta might have nabbed John Collins... but they also passed on Luka Doncic for Trae Young.

Unfortunately for Wolves fans... the misses have overwhelmed the hits... for a very long time. This regime hasn't been able to overcome that. Hopefully, the next regime is better. Finally.

But it's an uphill battle, because the owner is part of any regime. And Glen Taylor has largely been atrocious.

Exactly. Every franchise has hits and misses. But the good organizations have a lot more hits than misses and get some big-time hits. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, the Wolves have been heavier on misses than hits for a long time.

As for the Hawks, taking Young over Doncic was a mistake and I thought so at the time as did most analysts. But Young looks very good and I wouldn't exactly call him a miss except relative to the missed opportunity named Doncic.

The level of ineptitude of the Wolves' various front offices over the years is pretty extraordinary. For me, the worst is selling a first round puck that could have been used to take Gobert. But there are so many others. Taking Bazz over Giannis that same draft was a huge mistake as well.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:....and the Spurs pounded Toronto last night.

Abe, how good is Pop? He almost trumps talent in this on going dialogue of coaching vs. players. Obviously he doesn't win titles without Robinson and then Duncan. But the fact he's putting together a winning record with this roster in the West is pure coaching brilliance.

Does anyone think Bryn Forbes, Davis Bertans, or Derrick White would be positive, major rotation players on a Wolves squad? They wouldn't. They would either not get playing time or be major liabilities on the floor if they came up through our "system". And that's under Thibs, Adelman, Mitchell...whoever.

Coaching matters - a lot. So does front office decision-making - from the quality of an organization's scouts to their PBO. You might have noticed that Murray put up 36 points with 7 rebounds and 6 assists last night. Buddy Hield put up 29 points, shooting 5-9 from behind the arc. John Collins is averaging amost 19 points and slightly over 10 rebounds per game this season at age 21. There's a pretty good player named Jokic who Denver took with the 41st pick in the draft. The Wolves need to upgrade both their head coach and front office.

While I agree with your general premise that an organization needs good coaching and front offices to succeed, every org has hits and misses. For example, Atlanta might have nabbed John Collins... but they also passed on Luka Doncic for Trae Young.

Unfortunately for Wolves fans... the misses have overwhelmed the hits... for a very long time. This regime hasn't been able to overcome that. Hopefully, the next regime is better. Finally.

But it's an uphill battle, because the owner is part of any regime. And Glen Taylor has largely been atrocious.

Exactly. Every franchise has hits and misses. But the good organizations have a lot more hits than misses and get some big-time hits. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, the Wolves have been heavier on misses than hits for a long time.

As for the Hawks, taking Young over Doncic was a mistake and I thought so at the time as did most analysts. But Young looks very good and I wouldn't exactly call him a miss except relative to the missed opportunity named Doncic.

The level of ineptitude of the Wolves' various front offices over the years is pretty extraordinary. For me, the worst is selling a first round puck that could have been used to take Gobert. But there are so many others. Taking Bazz over Giannis that same draft was a huge mistake as well.

It's bad luck to take Bazz over greak Freak but like you mentioned I hate trading/selling picks on draft day.

I believe we have traded or sold, Chalmers, Parsons, gobert, montejunas. When we were bad doing things like that is franchise suicide.