Page 28 of 43
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:16 am
by TheFuture
Ibaka is really showing his ability this series. The max still freaks me out a bit, but damn would he be the perfect fit.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-RFyk7VoAExltG.jpg:largePoints added/saved in playoffs
https://twitter.com/adamrparis/status/856148456376848386?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D1554310%26start%3D1380Serge is holding Bucks to 31.7% at the rim facing 10.4 shots per game
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:52 am
by Lipoli390
Q12543 wrote:60WinTim wrote:We keep talking about what additions will make the team better. I will say this again. We will suck as long as Wiggins and KAT are our two highest usage players, yet don't sacrifice some of their points to create shots for other players. Because no matter who we bring in, if those two don't help their teammates find ways to score, then we will be scratching our heads once again wondering why players we bring in don't perform the way we thought they would.
It's all on Wiggins and KAT. They HAVE to figure out how to make players better.
Tim, Don't disagree with you here, but the bigger issue is that they are one-way players right now. Until they take their defense as seriously as their scoring, we're going nowhere.
As for the passing, I think KAT actually has the skill and feel to do better, but truly sometimes gets tunnel vision and freezes out team mates. This is the "hero ball" syndrome. Wiggins on the other hand simply doesn't have the feel or skill for it yet, so it's less of a selfish trait and more of a skill gap. He's just got poor floor vision and passing skills.
I agree with both of you. I agree with Tim that this team's fate ultimately depends on KAT and Wiggins. That was what Thibs was hinting at in his post-season press conference when he said that the defensive improvement we needs starts with KAT and Wiggins. I'd say the same thing about the offensive end and doing things to make the team better.
I'm actually pretty confident that KAT will make the strides we need from him. As Q mentioned, he has the skills and basketball IQ to be a good (actually very good) passer and has shown that ability a number of times in his young career. He also seems to have that hypercompetitive streak in him that typically drives talented players to improve. You can see it on the offensive end when he seems to will the ball into the basket and in his rebounding stats. Rebounding is a great barometer for competitive drive or motor. I think that same competitive drive in KAT will drive improvement on the defensive end as well.
I'm more concerned about Wiggins. As Q said, he doesn't seem to have the natural talent for passing. And as many of us have mentioned a lot, it's not clear he has that hypercompetitive streak needed to become a great two-way player. I'm not willing to give up on him in that regard, but I'm concerned. This next season will tell the tale for Wiggins.
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:06 am
by thedoper
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:23 am
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
thedoper wrote:
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:26 am
by AbeVigodaLive
Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
The thing with Ibaka is that Toronto got him for what he offers in the postseason. And it's why I think other playoff teams will (should) have the upper hand in signing him.
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:30 pm
by Monster
lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:60WinTim wrote:We keep talking about what additions will make the team better. I will say this again. We will suck as long as Wiggins and KAT are our two highest usage players, yet don't sacrifice some of their points to create shots for other players. Because no matter who we bring in, if those two don't help their teammates find ways to score, then we will be scratching our heads once again wondering why players we bring in don't perform the way we thought they would.
It's all on Wiggins and KAT. They HAVE to figure out how to make players better.
Tim, Don't disagree with you here, but the bigger issue is that they are one-way players right now. Until they take their defense as seriously as their scoring, we're going nowhere.
As for the passing, I think KAT actually has the skill and feel to do better, but truly sometimes gets tunnel vision and freezes out team mates. This is the "hero ball" syndrome. Wiggins on the other hand simply doesn't have the feel or skill for it yet, so it's less of a selfish trait and more of a skill gap. He's just got poor floor vision and passing skills.
I agree with both of you. I agree with Tim that this team's fate ultimately depends on KAT and Wiggins. That was what Thibs was hinting at in his post-season press conference when he said that the defensive improvement we needs starts with KAT and Wiggins. I'd say the same thing about the offensive end and doing things to make the team better.
I'm actually pretty confident that KAT will make the strides we need from him. As Q mentioned, he has the skills and basketball IQ to be a good (actually very good) passer and has shown that ability a number of times in his young career. He also seems to have that hypercompetitive streak in him that typically drives talented players to improve. You can see it on the offensive end when he seems to will the ball into the basket and in his rebounding stats. Rebounding is a great barometer for competitive drive or motor. I think that same competitive drive in KAT will drive improvement on the defensive end as well.
I'm more concerned about Wiggins. As Q said, he doesn't seem to have the natural talent for passing. And as many of us have mentioned a lot, it's not clear he has that hypercompetitive streak needed to become a great two-way player. I'm not willing to give up on him in that regard, but I'm concerned. This next season will tell the tale for Wiggins.
To me both Wiggins and Towns made strides in passing and playmaking this season. Down the stretch those guys were passing to...um Either each other or Rubio or Rush or some bench player type. Especially once Belly went down there was limited 3 point shooting so that made it even tougher. People say all the time guys that go to the rim etc need shooters well it would be even tougher for young guys like Towns and Wiggins. I just think that's something that should be pointed out.
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:21 pm
by thedoper
Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
It's fit Q. That is my point. I can't think of a better fit next to Towns. He was asked to be a #1 in Orlando. That is totally insane. He's a third or 4th option on offense who can anchor a defense.
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:43 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
thedoper wrote:Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
It's fit Q. That is my point. I can't think of a better fit next to Towns. He was asked to be a #1 in Orlando. That is totally insane. He's a third or 4th option on offense who can anchor a defense.
Anchor a defense? Not so sure about that. He played 30 MPG in Orlando and averaged 15 PPG. That should hardly exhaust him to the point of not being able to defend, yet Orlando was the 22nd ranked defense in the NBA - they actually got worse from the year before. His On/Off numbers with both Orlando and Toronto show absolutely no difference defensively whether he sat or was in the game. You'd think for such a great anchor, he'd make more of an impact!
Now I certainly think he is still a solid defender, but I question whether he's the magic elixir that will fix our ills on that end of the court. He seems to have regressed over the past few years.
Edit: I just looked at OKC's defense this year versus last year and they actually got a little bit better, going from 13th to 10th! And they replaced Ibaka with a freakin' rookie in Sabonis!
So let's see here.....the team he left got better on defense with a rookie replacing him and the team he joined got worse. That doesn't look very good to me!
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:25 pm
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
It's fit Q. That is my point. I can't think of a better fit next to Towns. He was asked to be a #1 in Orlando. That is totally insane. He's a third or 4th option on offense who can anchor a defense.
Anchor a defense? Not so sure about that. He played 30 MPG in Orlando and averaged 15 PPG. That should hardly exhaust him to the point of not being able to defend, yet Orlando was the 22nd ranked defense in the NBA - they actually got worse from the year before. His On/Off numbers with both Orlando and Toronto show absolutely no difference defensively whether he sat or was in the game. You'd think for such a great anchor, he'd make more of an impact!
Now I certainly think he is still a solid defender, but I question whether he's the magic elixir that will fix our ills on that end of the court. He seems to have regressed over the past few years.
Edit: I just looked at OKC's defense this year versus last year and they actually got a little bit better, going from 13th to 10th! And they replaced Ibaka with a freakin' rookie in Sabonis!
So let's see here.....the team he left got better on defense with a rookie replacing him and the team he joined got worse. That doesn't look very good to me!
He's not as much of an anchor anymore because the game has changed. He's now having to guard out on the perimeter a lot more than say 2-3-4 years ago. A Durant-Ibaka-Adams frontline gave the Warriors fits because Ibaka and Durant can switch anything on the perimeter. Unfortunately that doesn't translate to the stat sheet nearly as much as getting to hang around the rim as an actor, but it would really help us to have him at the 4 so teams either have to put him in the PnR that he can defend so well or go after Towns and Ibaka gets to be the help defender again.
Re: Offseason Targets
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:38 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
khans2k5 wrote:Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:Q12543 wrote:thedoper wrote:
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
It's fit Q. That is my point. I can't think of a better fit next to Towns. He was asked to be a #1 in Orlando. That is totally insane. He's a third or 4th option on offense who can anchor a defense.
Anchor a defense? Not so sure about that. He played 30 MPG in Orlando and averaged 15 PPG. That should hardly exhaust him to the point of not being able to defend, yet Orlando was the 22nd ranked defense in the NBA - they actually got worse from the year before. His On/Off numbers with both Orlando and Toronto show absolutely no difference defensively whether he sat or was in the game. You'd think for such a great anchor, he'd make more of an impact!
Now I certainly think he is still a solid defender, but I question whether he's the magic elixir that will fix our ills on that end of the court. He seems to have regressed over the past few years.
Edit: I just looked at OKC's defense this year versus last year and they actually got a little bit better, going from 13th to 10th! And they replaced Ibaka with a freakin' rookie in Sabonis!
So let's see here.....the team he left got better on defense with a rookie replacing him and the team he joined got worse. That doesn't look very good to me!
He's not as much of an anchor anymore because the game has changed. He's now having to guard out on the perimeter a lot more than say 2-3-4 years ago. A Durant-Ibaka-Adams frontline gave the Warriors fits because Ibaka and Durant can switch anything on the perimeter. Unfortunately that doesn't translate to the stat sheet nearly as much as getting to hang around the rim as an actor, but it would really help us to have him at the 4 so teams either have to put him in the PnR that he can defend so well or go after Towns and Ibaka gets to be the help defender again.
Taj Gibson is perfectly capable of switching out onto the perimeter on guys as well. He won't cost nearly as much.
I'd throw everything we've got at Milsap, but assuming he can't be had, J. Green from Memphis and then Taj Gibson are sort of option B and C to me.
