Minnesota Sports Forum

It really is unfortunate Cleveland is banged up like this. Love, Irving, and LeBron could probably have gone toe-to-toe with these guys offensively - or at least come close. Plus LeBron would be a lot fresher since Kyrie could take on a lot of the creating responsibility.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Love/Irving is a better offensive tandem than TT/Delly. And I'd be surprised if anyone would attempt to argue that TT/Delly isn't superior to Love /Irving on the defensive side of the ball. So where does that leave us?

Cleveland, with Love in the lineup most of the year, won 53 games playing a soft East Conference schedule. Golden State won 14 more games playing a much more difficult schedule. There was a wide gap between the competence of these two clubs all year. We can play what if games and speculate that Cleveland would have magically turned it on and played Golden State even in the playoffs if they had been healthy, but I'm not buying it. You can learn a lot about the relative strength of two teams watching them play 82 regular season games, and I saw a Golden State team built to beat Cleveland in 5 or 6 games in the finals...with or without Love. That's just me...I'm more comfortable analyzing what's right in front of me than playing "what if".

longstrangetrip wrote:I don't think anyone disagrees that Love/Irving is a better offensive tandem than TT/Delly. And I'd be surprised if anyone would attempt to argue that TT/Delly isn't superior to Love /Irving on the defensive side of the ball. So where does that leave us?

Cleveland, with Love in the lineup most of the year, won 53 games playing a soft East Conference schedule. Golden State won 14 more games playing a much more difficult schedule. There was a wide gap between the competence of these two clubs all year. We can play what if games and speculate that Cleveland would have magically turned it on and played Golden State even in the playoffs if they had been healthy, but I'm not buying it. You can learn a lot about the relative strength of two teams watching them play 82 regular season games, and I saw a Golden State team built to beat Cleveland in 5 or 6 games in the finals...with or without Love. That's just me...I'm more comfortable analyzing what's right in front of me than playing "what if".

Im comfortable saying the Cavs missed the 40 pts and 15 rebs they would've contributed. And u r not analyzing by just what's in front of u.. Uve been pretty up front with the fact that u r views are swayed by ur disdain for the guy. Ur not completely objective on this one.

PorkChop wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I don't think anyone disagrees that Love/Irving is a better offensive tandem than TT/Delly. And I'd be surprised if anyone would attempt to argue that TT/Delly isn't superior to Love /Irving on the defensive side of the ball. So where does that leave us?

Cleveland, with Love in the lineup most of the year, won 53 games playing a soft East Conference schedule. Golden State won 14 more games playing a much more difficult schedule. There was a wide gap between the competence of these two clubs all year. We can play what if games and speculate that Cleveland would have magically turned it on and played Golden State even in the playoffs if they had been healthy, but I'm not buying it. You can learn a lot about the relative strength of two teams watching them play 82 regular season games, and I saw a Golden State team built to beat Cleveland in 5 or 6 games in the finals...with or without Love. That's just me...I'm more comfortable analyzing what's right in front of me than playing "what if".

Im comfortable saying the Cavs missed the 40 pts and 15 rebs they would've contributed. And u r not analyzing by just what's in front of u.. Uve been pretty up front with the fact that u r views are swayed by ur disdain for the guy. Ur not completely objective on this one.

Yeah, I'm not that objective about Love. But I do know that Love and Irving haven't proven to be winners in their careers to date, and I also know that 40 and 15 only helped the Cavs get to 53 wins in the ridiculously weak East...despite having the best player in the world on the court with them for 40 minutes a game. There must be more to the game than offense...oh yeah, defense and intangibles, neither of which are plusses in Love's and Irving's games.

We'll never know how the Cavs would have fared in the playoffs if they had a healthy Love/Irving, and you and I are not going to agree in this fantasy exercise. You point to Love/Irving's 40 and 15, and I point to the enormous difference in success throughout 82 games between these two clubs. I'm not going to be convinced that two one-way players who had never won a playoff game before teaming up with LeBron James would have suddenly flipped the switch in the playoffs and led the Cavs to the championship against a team that proved over the course of 6 months that they were the far superior team.

longstrangetrip wrote:

PorkChop wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I don't think anyone disagrees that Love/Irving is a better offensive tandem than TT/Delly. And I'd be surprised if anyone would attempt to argue that TT/Delly isn't superior to Love /Irving on the defensive side of the ball. So where does that leave us?

Cleveland, with Love in the lineup most of the year, won 53 games playing a soft East Conference schedule. Golden State won 14 more games playing a much more difficult schedule. There was a wide gap between the competence of these two clubs all year. We can play what if games and speculate that Cleveland would have magically turned it on and played Golden State even in the playoffs if they had been healthy, but I'm not buying it. You can learn a lot about the relative strength of two teams watching them play 82 regular season games, and I saw a Golden State team built to beat Cleveland in 5 or 6 games in the finals...with or without Love. That's just me...I'm more comfortable analyzing what's right in front of me than playing "what if".

Im comfortable saying the Cavs missed the 40 pts and 15 rebs they would've contributed. And u r not analyzing by just what's in front of u.. Uve been pretty up front with the fact that u r views are swayed by ur disdain for the guy. Ur not completely objective on this one.

Yeah, I'm not that objective about Love. But I do know that Love and Irving haven't proven to be winners in their careers to date, and I also know that 40 and 15 only helped the Cavs get to 53 wins in the ridiculously weak East...despite having the best player in the world on the court with them for 40 minutes a game. There must be more to the game than offense...oh yeah, defense and intangibles, neither of which are plusses in Love's and Irving's games.

We'll never know how the Cavs would have fared in the playoffs if they had a healthy Love/Irving, and you and I are not going to agree in this fantasy exercise. You point to Love/Irving's 40 and 15, and I point to the enormous difference in success throughout 82 games between these two clubs. I'm not going to be convinced that two one-way players who had never won a playoff game before teaming up with LeBron James would have suddenly flipped the switch in the playoffs and led the Cavs to the championship against a team that proved over the course of 6 months that they were the far superior team.

And I'll point to all the players on golden states team that never won a playoff game or game of significance and lo n b hold. They won.. Every player that ever won anything started off by winning nothing . Next year there will be another player (s) that have never experienced success and they will find themselves in Sean Livingstons current position .

Hell of a series by the Cavs and made it moderately interesting at the end. Curry was fantastic in this game I don't know what the stats are but he was very good. IGGY what a series. Kerr made alot of the right moves. Somehow Blatt got the Cavs to keep competing like they did. Some Cavs players may have made themselves a lot of money in this series.

IGGY!!!!!

Does anyone else find it annoying when they say "World Champions"?

longstrangetrip wrote:I don't think anyone disagrees that Love/Irving is a better offensive tandem than TT/Delly. And I'd be surprised if anyone would attempt to argue that TT/Delly isn't superior to Love /Irving on the defensive side of the ball. So where does that leave us?

Cleveland, with Love in the lineup most of the year, won 53 games playing a soft East Conference schedule. Golden State won 14 more games playing a much more difficult schedule. There was a wide gap between the competence of these two clubs all year. We can play what if games and speculate that Cleveland would have magically turned it on and played Golden State even in the playoffs if they had been healthy, but I'm not buying it. You can learn a lot about the relative strength of two teams watching them play 82 regular season games, and I saw a Golden State team built to beat Cleveland in 5 or 6 games in the finals...with or without Love. That's just me...I'm more comfortable analyzing what's right in front of me than playing "what if".

All I know is that I was mocked by somebody for saying spacing would affect James' efficiency. I didn't understand it then. But I do know he shot 40% or below in this series.

By the way... Cleveland was 32 - 3 in the last 35 games it played with Irving/Love/James in the lineup.

Iguodala the MVP? The NBA can be such a bush league sometimes.